T Nation

5x5 and High Rep Body Work

I’m currently on a 5x5 program with a push/pull split and lift in the morning. In the evenings, I do my cardio and depending on which lifting day it is, I also perform various types of push ups/burpees, plyometrics, chin ups etc.

Will high repetition work in the evenings hinder my strength progression with the 5x5? I’m definately making gains in the gym on all lifts, but wonder if the gains could be greater.

The gains could be greater if you change the cardio to interval training. For example just do a 12min interval workout on the bike. 1min as fast as possible followed by 1min recovery (around 60-70RPM).

Depends on what you mean by high rep work, and why you’re doing it. Is this meant to be active recovery, additional hypertrophy, endurance training, what?

[quote]blue9steel wrote:
Depends on what you mean by high rep work, and why you’re doing it. Is this meant to be active recovery, additional hypertrophy, endurance training, what?[/quote]

additional hypertrophy and endurance. High rep as in going to failure on above mentioned excercises.

Personally I see nothing wrong with that, sounds similar to HFT, but others may disagree.

You said you are getting gains, then I think that answers it.

The extra work in the evening shouldn’t hurt it it’s bodyweight-based. It will help if it’s not exhaustive because it will expedite recovery from the heavy work. If you have a reason to go to failure (lactate tolerance or something), it won’t help as much with growth, but if it’s very light I don’t think it will take anything away.

As for the suggestion that you do interval cardio, this is not correct. HIIT is CNS intensive and will divert neural resources from the heavy work. This will hurt your strength gains, not help them. One high intensity session a week might not hurt if you’re only lifting 2-3 times per week. Otherwise, unless you have an important reason to do high intensity cardio (sport preparation), stick to low-intensity steady state work.

Good luck.

Training for endurance, hypertrophy and strength gains at the same time is somewhat of a conflict. Basically your results will be poor at all three.

Training twice a day is possible, but it puts a VERY heavy load on your recovery systems. Unless you’re going to juice, you won’t be able to keep it up for more than about 4-6 weeks without overtraining. This assumes that your second workout has reasonably heavy loading. If you’re just talking about bodyweight work, I wouldn’t stress about it.

Basically it seems like you’re asking if doing more work will increase the pace of your results, and that depends on your current exercise density/intensity, as well as your nutrition plan, recovery methodolgy, etc.

[quote]blue9steel wrote:
Training for endurance, hypertrophy and strength gains at the same time is somewhat of a conflict. Basically your results will be poor at all three.

[/quote]

Explain that part, because I disagree but might be wrong on how I see it.

[quote]Ramo wrote:
As for the suggestion that you do interval cardio, this is not correct. HIIT is CNS intensive and will divert neural resources from the heavy work. This will hurt your strength gains, not help them. One high intensity session a week might not hurt if you’re only lifting 2-3 times per week. Otherwise, unless you have an important reason to do high intensity cardio (sport preparation), stick to low-intensity steady state work.[/quote]

Unless his goal is to be Jane Fonda or Dave Scott (triathlete) no one in their right mind would sit on a cardio machine for an hour. It doesn’t burn many calories and does not stimulate the metabolism.

Low-intensity steady state cardio is good for endurance athletes who have a different goal then texasguy1. Compare a sprinter (interval work) against a marathoner (low-intensity steady state cardio). The answer is clear.

[quote]Ramo wrote:
The extra work in the evening shouldn’t hurt it it’s bodyweight-based. It will help if it’s not exhaustive because it will expedite recovery from the heavy work. If you have a reason to go to failure (lactate tolerance or something), it won’t help as much with growth, but if it’s very light I don’t think it will take anything away.

As for the suggestion that you do interval cardio, this is not correct. HIIT is CNS intensive and will divert neural resources from the heavy work. This will hurt your strength gains, not help them. One high intensity session a week might not hurt if you’re only lifting 2-3 times per week. Otherwise, unless you have an important reason to do high intensity cardio (sport preparation), stick to low-intensity steady state work.

Good luck.[/quote]

Yea all those anorexic weak running backs and sprinters need to get their shit together and start walking more, and running less.

[quote]Phatshady912 wrote:
Yea all those anorexic weak running backs and sprinters need to get their shit together and start walking more, and running less.[/quote]

Thank you for your support.

[quote]chrisoldcorn wrote:
Unless his goal is to be Jane Fonda or Dave Scott (triathlete) no one in their right mind would sit on a cardio machine for an hour. It doesn’t burn many calories and does not stimulate the metabolism.

Low-intensity steady state cardio is good for endurance athletes who have a different goal then texasguy1. Compare a sprinter (interval work) against a marathoner (low-intensity steady state cardio). The answer is clear.

[/quote]

The point is that doing too many CNS intensive activities all at once is just going to lead to burn out and overtraining, and slower paced steady-state cardio is less demanding on your CNS than HIIT is. His metabolism is already stimulated by the earlier weight training, as well as from doing bodyweight resistance exercises. I’m not saying that doing HIIT instead would be bad for him or that it would be overtraining, just that it COULD be.

[quote]PF_88 wrote:
blue9steel wrote:
Training for endurance, hypertrophy and strength gains at the same time is somewhat of a conflict. Basically your results will be poor at all three.

Explain that part, because I disagree but might be wrong on how I see it.[/quote]

For a beginner, non specific training will carry over across the spectrum so any weight training will give positive benefits to all 3 goals. Basically any program will work, some better than others. As you become intermediate, there will be less carry over and you need to mix up your rep ranges to address all three and you can probably get by on a 1 week cycle hitting all 3 and still make reasonable progress. Bill Starr 5x5 or the Texas method come to mind.

Once you approach the advanced stage, gains are hard to come by and you need to get everything out of you program that you can. The OP is suggesting 2 workouts a day which may be appropriate for advanced athletes but rarely for beginner or intermediate.

At the advanced level, there is very little crossover between strength, hypertrophy and endurance training. Training needs to be specific and cycled to the immediate goal while maintaining the other components. To optimize training at this level is very complicated and the cost of getting it wrong is high so expert coaching is required.

Most people are at the beginner phase for only a few months. They may stay at intermediate for several years. This is the level that I believe most of the comments in this thread are aimed at. At this level a trainee needs to start focusing on 1 goal at a time while maintaining the others and start to cycle them as appropriate.

To the OP, determine what level you are truly at. Unless you are advanced, the second workout of the day should only be active recovery or you will sacrifice recovery and make smaller gains and risk overtraining. If you are advanced, get a coach that is expert in your sport and do what he says. A second workout may be warranted but at the risk of overtraining, it needs to be looked at closely.

Stu