T Nation

5's Pro and Rep PRs?


#1

Jim, was wanting to know on 5's pro have you or have had your athletes go for rep p.r's , or get enough reps to equal a e1rm on the last set. Thank you for any input and your great programs.


#2

[quote]gsalyer wrote:
Jim, was wanting to know on 5’s pro have you or have had your athletes go for rep p.r’s , or get enough reps to equal a e1rm on the last set. Thank you for any input and your great programs.[/quote]

Gotta pick your battles. You can’t always hit an eRM but you also don’t want to do 6x300lbs because you previously did 5x300lbs when you could easily push out 10 reps because you haven’t encountered that weight for 4 months.


#3

Sometimes Jim will have his guys go for a rep PR at the end of week 6 or week 12. The 5s PRO can catch up to you quickly, so my recommendation is to go for a PR every 12 weeks, but end the set when the bar speed begins to slow down.


#4

Joey, you seem to know what you are talking about in regard to jims work. Have you tried heavy singles with 5’s pro if so how often? On 3 and 1 weeks ala 351 for pl setup? Thanks mate.


#5

[quote]Shaun87 wrote:
Joey, you seem to know what you are talking about in regard to jims work. Have you tried heavy singles with 5’s pro if so how often? On 3 and 1 weeks ala 351 for pl setup? Thanks mate.[/quote]

Shaun, I have tried heavy singles with the 5s pro. I did a heavy single with the press and the squat after at least 12 weeks, maybe more. I wish I hadn’t because it fried me pretty good for the next cycle. Jim usually doesn’t recommend singles with 5s pro, probably for this reason. I should have listened to him!

I wouldn’t worry about heavy singles with 5s pro. Go for a rep record on week 12 for one, MAYBE two lifts. Gear up for it and destroy it, then do the required reps on the other lifts. With the 5s pro, recovery can become an issue if you don’t watch yourself, especially on the 5/3/1 week, so don’t overdo it and wreck the whole program. I have learned this the hard way.

I will say that I am doing the 2-day program, squat/bench one day and pull/press the other, so I don’t deload due to having 5 days a week to recover. My experiences could be different than people that are doing 3 or 4 days a week!


#6

Thanks joey, 5’s pro would seem like it could be rough in later cycles like you said affecting recovery especially on the 1 weeks. I think id be best to stick to normal 531 as there are bad days where i can just get req reps and then others where i can tell im going to set a pr during my warmups and work sets. Keep fsl constant and then heavy singles in cycles 4 and 5 before going back 3.


#7

[quote]gsalyer wrote:
Jim, was wanting to know on 5’s pro have you or have had your athletes go for rep p.r’s , or get enough reps to equal a e1rm on the last set. Thank you for any input and your great programs.[/quote]

Joey is correct - understand that writing something for “everyone” and coaching are two totally different things. In general, IN GENERAL, it’s every 3-6 weeks but a lot of it depends on the athlete and the circumstances, etc.

Here’s the thing, people are horribly predictable. A girl who has an abusive father will date/marry abusive men. She needs to date/marry people she is not attracted to.

A lifter who has a horrible history of fucking up his training needs to do the exact opposite of what he thinks is a good idea - you see this all the time when someone loves working up and thinks “I feel good ALL THE TIME!” And then they run themselves into the ground. Like the girl above, the lifter probably should do what is written and not stray from the path.


#8

Thanks Jim and everyone for the inputs, have been using 5’s pro for about 3 months when I started went back 5 cycles with tm knowing that as time went by it would catch up. I was just curious if you had every tried it and what the end result was, and if or should one ever try for rep p.r.'s after a few cycles. Thank you for time and your programs.


#9

Joey, what’s your 2 day program look like if you don’t mind me asking?


#10

[quote]FERCHCORE wrote:
Joey, what’s your 2 day program look like if you don’t mind me asking?[/quote]

Ferch, I have had my best success with the following:

Day 1:

Squat: 5s PRO
FSL: 3 sets of 5

Bench: 5s PRO
FSL: 5x5

Rows: Whatever
Curls: Sometimes
Rear delts: 3x25

Day 2:

Pull: 5s PRO
FSL: 5x5 (rack pull from knee due to a back injury that hasn’t gone away completely)

Press: 5s PRO
FSL: 5x5

Rows: Whatever
Curls: Sometimes
Rear delts: 3x25

I also did some sled work on my off days sometimes and/or weight vest walking. I didn’t pay as much attention to conditioning as I should have.

That program yielded PRs in everything, which I only checked once after about 6 months of the program. The 5s PRO was challenging enough that I didn’t feel the need to test anything. I made sure that I was moving the bar as fast as possible on EVERY rep of EVERY set.

Currently I am experimenting with DC Training ideas for my FSL work just out of boredom having been with the exact same program for over a year. I have never tried that with the 5s PRO. So far, so good, but I won’t know if this is worth a damn for another few months. There is a DC training template for 5/3/1, but it doesn’t use the 5s PRO for the main sets.

I do rest/pause sets on the bench and press, and widowmakers with a hack squat and rack pulls from the knee for the squat and pull, respectively.

I hope this helps! Keep in mind that I am not a very strong dude, I have just had good success with the program. You may be far beyond my level, so keep that in mind.


#11

Thanks for the lengthy reply. I’m not particularly super strong either. Maybe I’ll give it a go. It’ll be hard to not have a PR set attempt weekly though. Also, not a fan of chins?


#12

[quote]FERCHCORE wrote:
Thanks for the lengthy reply. I’m not particularly super strong either. Maybe I’ll give it a go. It’ll be hard to not have a PR set attempt weekly though. Also, not a fan of chins?[/quote]

As far as the PR attempts, when it gets to the 5/3/1 week and you have to hit 95% for 5, that is never easy, and usually very rewarding. The key to the 5s PRO is to destroy each rep of each set. There are no slow reps, just pure hate each time the bar is moved. That 100% effort took the place of rep PRs for me.

Regarding chins, I do them instead of rows sometimes. I just do whatever row/chin movement feels like I am hitting my entire back the best. Right now its seated cable rows. Next cycle it might be chins the entire time.


#13

Thanks for that advice. One more question, promise. How long are your rest periods between sets on 5s pro and the FSLs?


#14

[quote]FERCHCORE wrote:
Thanks for that advice. One more question, promise. How long are your rest periods between sets on 5s pro and the FSLs?[/quote]

Probably 5 minutes or so. Just long enough that my mind is ready to focus again.


#15

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Joey is correct - understand that writing something for “everyone” and coaching are two totally different things. In general, IN GENERAL, it’s every 3-6 weeks but a lot of it depends on the athlete and the circumstances, etc.
[/quote]
Would you do this for the supplemental/ big assistance lifts, or would you only go for rep prs with 5s pro if you were using it for the main lift?