531/Joker Sets/Boring But Big

[quote]box4m wrote:

[quote]Siemen wrote:

[quote]box4m wrote:
Even if im doing 5x10 BBB with reverse exercise you think its better if i dont go for PR on last 531 set then?[/quote]

Yes[/quote]

Gonna be incredibly hard on my mind not going for PR, we see how it goes ^[1]

Look at the big picture and why we plan training. For example:

3-6 weeks - Forever BBB
Next 3-6 weeks - SSL, 5’s PRO, with jokers on week 6
Next 3-6 weeks - Spinal Remains SVR (not the challenge Spinal Remains) or FSL/jokers on 3 and 6

With this we now have a complete and easy program that covers a lot of ground.

We keep jumps/throws, conditioning constant - perhaps tweaking the conditioning work for Forever BBB to only AirDyne work for recovery (5 days/week). I try to keep the M/L/H throughout the training cycle. What this does is allow me (who is the “coach”) to easily monitor and adjust. Once I learned to do this, programming became much easier. The more things that remain constant in the MLH format, the easier it is for me to see what is working and what isn’t. The problem people have and I had is that they introduce too many variables and don’t understand what is or isn’t working.

This easy model has allowed me to really hone in on perfecting a standard model. For most people, this works extremely well. Im just lucky I get to experiment on people.

Also - none of this shit works if you don’t recover. Too many people have eating disorders that are borderline dangerous and take pride in not sleeping.


  1. /quote ↩︎

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:

[quote]box4m wrote:

[quote]Siemen wrote:

[quote]box4m wrote:
Even if im doing 5x10 BBB with reverse exercise you think its better if i dont go for PR on last 531 set then?[/quote]

Yes[/quote]

Gonna be incredibly hard on my mind not going for PR, we see how it goes ^[1]

Look at the big picture and why we plan training. For example:

3-6 weeks - Forever BBB
Next 3-6 weeks - SSL, 5’s PRO, with jokers on week 6
Next 3-6 weeks - Spinal Remains SVR (not the challenge Spinal Remains) or FSL/jokers on 3 and 6

With this we now have a complete and easy program that covers a lot of ground.

We keep jumps/throws, conditioning constant - perhaps tweaking the conditioning work for Forever BBB to only AirDyne work for recovery (5 days/week). I try to keep the M/L/H throughout the training cycle. What this does is allow me (who is the “coach”) to easily monitor and adjust. Once I learned to do this, programming became much easier. The more things that remain constant in the MLH format, the easier it is for me to see what is working and what isn’t. The problem people have and I had is that they introduce too many variables and don’t understand what is or isn’t working.

This easy model has allowed me to really hone in on perfecting a standard model. For most people, this works extremely well. Im just lucky I get to experiment on people.

Also - none of this shit works if you don’t recover. Too many people have eating disorders that are borderline dangerous and take pride in not sleeping.
[/quote]

Im sorry but what is SSL, “spinal remains SVR” and MLH?
I know SVR but not spinal remains.

And yeah i get what u mean about looking at the big picture, i think my problem is that i read everything by the letter, cause i want something that works for me.
Even tho ive trained almost 10years now, ive clearly been doing stuff wrong since im not gaining much, which is why i dont want to overthink myself and just go with a program…

edit: and im guessing “forever BBB” you mean “BBB”? :stuck_out_tongue:


  1. /quote ↩︎

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:

Look at the big picture and why we plan training. For example:

3-6 weeks - Forever BBB
Next 3-6 weeks - SSL, 5’s PRO, with jokers on week 6
Next 3-6 weeks - Spinal Remains SVR (not the challenge Spinal Remains) or FSL/jokers on 3 and 6

With this we now have a complete and easy program that covers a lot of ground.

We keep jumps/throws, conditioning constant - perhaps tweaking the conditioning work for Forever BBB to only AirDyne work for recovery (5 days/week). I try to keep the M/L/H throughout the training cycle. What this does is allow me (who is the “coach”) to easily monitor and adjust. Once I learned to do this, programming became much easier. The more things that remain constant in the MLH format, the easier it is for me to see what is working and what isn’t. The problem people have and I had is that they introduce too many variables and don’t understand what is or isn’t working.

This easy model has allowed me to really hone in on perfecting a standard model. For most people, this works extremely well. Im just lucky I get to experiment on people.

Also - none of this shit works if you don’t recover. Too many people have eating disorders that are borderline dangerous and take pride in not sleeping.
[/quote]

Very insightful, thanks.

[quote]box4m wrote:

Im sorry but what is SSL, “spinal remains SVR” and MLH?
I know SVR but not spinal remains.[/quote]

  • Forever BBB is a template. I don’t know what’s in it but it’s probably on Jim’s website.
  • SSL is Second Set Last. Same idea as FSL, only heavier.
  • MLH is Medium Light Heavy, or 3/5/1.
  • Spinal Remains is a song by the Misfits, but it’s probably another template that’s on Jim’s website.

What’s important there isn’t the details but the idea that he’s laid out for you.

1-2 cycles of low intensity, high volume (BBB).
1-2 cycles of medium intensity, medium volume (5’s Pro w/ SSL)
1-2 cycles of high intensity, low volume (SVR).

At the end of the last cycle do a reset and start over with BBB again.

3 Likes

[quote]some_dude wrote:

[quote]box4m wrote:

Im sorry but what is SSL, “spinal remains SVR” and MLH?
I know SVR but not spinal remains.[/quote]

  • Forever BBB is a template. I don’t know what’s in it but it’s probably on Jim’s website.
  • SSL is Second Set Last. Same idea as FSL, only heavier.
  • MLH is Medium Light Heavy, or 3/5/1.
  • Spinal Remains is a song by the Misfits, but it’s probably another template that’s on Jim’s website.

What’s important there isn’t the details but the idea that he’s laid out for you.

1-2 cycles of low intensity, high volume (BBB).
1-2 cycles of medium intensity, medium volume (5’s Pro w/ SSL)
1-2 cycles of high intensity, low volume (SVR).

At the end of the last cycle do a reset and start over with BBB again.[/quote]

Can you send me a message on this website? I’d like to talk to you - you understand the big picture. I got no idea if there is a place to send messages. If you have time…

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:

Can you send me a message on this website? I’d like to talk to you - you understand the big picture. I got no idea if there is a place to send messages. If you have time…
[/quote]

NP. I can’t figure out if there’s a way through T-Nation but I could probaby fire something off through Facebook. I’m at work right now but will send somethnig later today.

from my experience with the program I do the main lift and do it till I come really close to the max rep number for that week.for example I’ll get 6 reps on my 5’s week or 4 reps on my 3’s week etc… it gives me a perfect excuse not to push a joker set too much. what I do Is just do the variations in jim’s book. the main lift push like a mofo on the max rep set not to failure of course then rest and do the FSL or 3-5 set 5-8reps etc then I put in some pullup or rows and that is it. once ever couple of weeks I feel good and I’ll push a joker if i feel like im strong if not I won’t do it. that simple!

when I rest my max and drop it down by 30lbs it may give me some chance to get a couple more jokers in but I try not to over do it too much. just my two cents.

my stats
233 lbs 6ft
2+ years on wendlers 49 years old
start: military 115x5 felt hard now 175x5
bench: start 175 x5 now 265x5
deadlift start 255x5 hard now 430x5
squat start 185x6 now 360x5 reps

thanks big jim bo booyah!!

[quote]some_dude wrote:

  • Forever BBB is a template. I don’t know what’s in it but it’s probably on Jim’s website.
  • SSL is Second Set Last. Same idea as FSL, only heavier.
  • MLH is Medium Light Heavy, or 3/5/1.
  • Spinal Remains is a song by the Misfits, but it’s probably another template that’s on Jim’s website.

What’s important there isn’t the details but the idea that he’s laid out for you.

1-2 cycles of low intensity, high volume (BBB).
1-2 cycles of medium intensity, medium volume (5’s Pro w/ SSL)
1-2 cycles of high intensity, low volume (SVR).

At the end of the last cycle do a reset and start over with BBB again.[/quote]

wow, thank you.
Really.

Mat’

jim I went in the the e book were is this SSL in the beyond 5/3/1, and I know it it not in the second edition what give coach? and were in gods name did this guy get the workout template?

oh also were is this M/l/H? jim you don’t describe anywhere in the book about this. I want to learn how to stick these damn variable in a template and not feel like im an idot. why was this not put in? because it make sense to also cycle thing like this. there is no description either of what is a medium,a low or a high is about in the book. not everyone was born to be a coach or a programing genius.

It wasn’t put in because it was written/programmed/experimented after I wrote the book. Simple as that.

sorry jim didn’t know that was done after was not sure were these things were flying from. almost felt left out :slight_smile:

but I like the ideas of the template and also in doing I just want to learn to. that’s is all bro.

happy new year to ya and thanks for the gainz bro

This past year - massive changes to the programming thanks to the people on the forum, reading more, experimenting more, etc.
Funny thing is that last year, as much as I could, I still just did the normal program. I have yet to really need anything more as smart, consistent work and PR sets have helped me grow stronger AND helped translate to “training my effort”. Which has helped other areas of my life. I understand that others need other things and that is why there are variations. So we test em out.

Hell I would love to do some of the templates I’ve written - the Monolith one is probably the best one I’ve written these past 6 months. And probably the biggest boner on the forum. But I gotta heal and make my way back slowly.

[quote]bigtony200 wrote:
jim I went in the the e book were is this SSL in the beyond 5/3/1, and I know it it not in the second edition what give coach? and were in gods name did this guy get the workout template?

[/quote]

A similar layout was posted by Jim in a reply to a question in this forum a few months ago. SSL = second set last.

I love the original variation and program Jim so much stuff in there plenty of choice to add in once in a while.i think the program is genius man.

one thing I never thought of was the way the blocks were different the way you wrote them up here by using this M/L/H thing.

3-6 week bbb
3-6 week 5 progression
3-6 week svr

I never looked at this way so I was kinda of excited the way it was layed out. also to learn how to set it up. will I ever do it I don’t know yet im still having fun with the original program.i can do the same program for a long time but some of the guys I workout with they want to change from one frigging thing to another ever month. so having a new idea like this to can help keep these mofo’s happy.

also if I really didn’t look really hard here at these forums I don’t think I would of found this info topic.

how the heck did you get all these great ideas :slight_smile:

thanks jim from this one old fart

thanks tsantos :wink: appreciate the help bro.

3-6 week bbb
3-6 week 5 progression
3-6 week svr

i am about to start this program looks really solid. i do have a question around assistance for the 5’s pro. is the 5 pro done on the assistance work, or does it replace 5/3/1 ?

it replaces the 5/3/1 original template. it is a low week so not to go nutso on it. just do the 5’s progression with no max reps add in a couple of assistant if needed.

Hi, I don’t know if this is the right place to ask, but where can I find the Forever BBB template, I have looked everywhere and just cant find it.

Thanks in advance

[quote]philski wrote:

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]box4m wrote:
So you would say that doing jokers every time i hit the gym is overkill and probably bad even for CNS maybe :o?[/quote]

Absolutely, definitely, without a shadow of a doubt. Jokers are to be used on those very rare days when the weights are flying up like they’re made of polystyrene.
[/quote]

Are you sure about this? In Beyond 5/3/1, Jim talks about using jokers for a six week cycle, not after a six week cycle. He also provides an table of “each week with Joker sets” showing %TM/Reps for 5/3/1 plus a few Jokers after the base sets for all 3 weeks.

-philip[/quote]

I’ve written many, many articles since the book in which I have pointed out 100% of people have fucked it up. It’s my fault entirely for ever introducing it.

Just get the TM correct, push smart, do some conditioning work: you’ll be good to go.