DE work is there for rate of force development and greasing the groove on the main lifts. DE work is not easy on the nervous system. Hell, that’s what it mostly develops. ME lifts are simply for practicing on straining through your sticking points on the main lift at a percentage above 90%. That’s the reason it’s important to choose the right ME lifts so that you’re straining with the correct portion and/or muscles that need to know how to strain.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
DE work is there for rate of force development and greasing the groove on the main lifts. DE work is not easy on the nervous system. Hell, that’s what it mostly develops. ME lifts are simply for practicing on straining through your sticking points on the main lift at a percentage above 90%. That’s the reason it’s important to choose the right ME lifts so that you’re straining with the correct portion and/or muscles that need to know how to strain.[/quote]
Well said, and you other guys. Touch tips already.
I dug this out of my notes on Wendler’s 5-3-1
"Wendler’s 5/3/1 and Westside Hybrid
Wendler’s 5/3/1 is a very flexible training system. Because of this, the door is wide open to integrate Wendler’s with core/key components of the Westside system.
Some trainees may want to utilize dynamic effort (DE) days from Westside training. How you structure this integration is up to you. Some trainees may be able to do both heavy squats and deadlifts on a single day, and then use the second posterior chain day of that week for dynamic effort (DE) work. Some may choose to do heavy Wendler squats with DE deadlifts, and heavy Wendler deadlifts with DE squats.
Another possible integration between Westside and Wendler’s would be to drop the heavy overhead pressing day, and instead, insert overhead pressing movements on your bench days. This would free up one training day each week for DE bench work.
Sample Westside/Wendler’s 5/3/1 program structure.
Monday - Dynamic effort (DE) bench press. Heavier overhead pressing.
Tuesday - Wendler’s squat day. Dynamic effort (DE) deadlifts.
Thursday - Wendler’s bench press day.
Friday - Wendler’s deadlift day. Dynamic effort (DE) squats.
For assistance work, use exercises that address your weaknesses. Please remember that this sample hybrid program is only an example, presented to get you thinking about the possibilities. There are many ways to combine Westside and Wendler’s, and many reasons why someone would want to do so.
When jumping into a hybrid routine, always proceed with caution. Start slow, and work your way into it. Don’t set up the hybrid with too much work. It’s better to get the feel of a hybrid program, and then to add work, then it is to kill yourself and have to pull back on work."
Bryan Krahn stated,
“If you want to see the results of 5/3/1, you have to do the program as written. As soon as you start customizing it, it’s no longer 5/3/1. You might like your own version of it better than Wendler’s original, but you can’t attribute your success or failure to the guy who wrote the program unless you’re actually doing the program as he wrote it.”
[quote]blacksheep wrote:
… /end thread[/quote]
[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
[quote]Karl Hungus wrote:
No. If you read all of what I wrote, not just one sentence taken out of context… What I really said is that DE work allows more volume to be used in Westside training, in addition to the more taxing ME work which has to be done at very low volume and frequency otherwise lifters would end up burning out. The quote I posted backs that up.
You seem to be suggesting that I said that DE work has some sort of mystical healing effect that prevents burnout (I’ll leave it to Thibs to suggest that).
[/quote]
The words you said exactly: Lift rotation and DE days are used to to prevent burning out due to the constant max effort work. That’s all I said.
As for that last part, WTF are you talking about? Seriously - nothing I wrote says anything about mystical anything. [/quote]
I think you need some sun mate
[quote]blacksheep wrote:
I dug this out of my notes on Wendler’s 5-3-1
"Wendler’s 5/3/1 and Westside Hybrid
Wendler’s 5/3/1 is a very flexible training system. Because of this, the door is wide open to integrate Wendler’s with core/key components of the Westside system.
Some trainees may want to utilize dynamic effort (DE) days from Westside training. How you structure this integration is up to you. Some trainees may be able to do both heavy squats and deadlifts on a single day, and then use the second posterior chain day of that week for dynamic effort (DE) work. Some may choose to do heavy Wendler squats with DE deadlifts, and heavy Wendler deadlifts with DE squats.
Another possible integration between Westside and Wendler’s would be to drop the heavy overhead pressing day, and instead, insert overhead pressing movements on your bench days. This would free up one training day each week for DE bench work.
Sample Westside/Wendler’s 5/3/1 program structure.
Monday - Dynamic effort (DE) bench press. Heavier overhead pressing.
Tuesday - Wendler’s squat day. Dynamic effort (DE) deadlifts.
Thursday - Wendler’s bench press day.
Friday - Wendler’s deadlift day. Dynamic effort (DE) squats.
For assistance work, use exercises that address your weaknesses. Please remember that this sample hybrid program is only an example, presented to get you thinking about the possibilities. There are many ways to combine Westside and Wendler’s, and many reasons why someone would want to do so.
When jumping into a hybrid routine, always proceed with caution. Start slow, and work your way into it. Don’t set up the hybrid with too much work. It’s better to get the feel of a hybrid program, and then to add work, then it is to kill yourself and have to pull back on work."
Bryan Krahn stated,
“If you want to see the results of 5/3/1, you have to do the program as written. As soon as you start customizing it, it’s no longer 5/3/1. You might like your own version of it better than Wendler’s original, but you can’t attribute your success or failure to the guy who wrote the program unless you’re actually doing the program as he wrote it.”[/quote]
doesnt take a genius to figure this out
[quote]frankjl wrote:
I’m pretty sure that Jim in the past has advised against this, and even had something featured in the Blood and Chalk series about DE work…
But if for some crazy reason I tried to do it, I would just do DE Bench work on Overhead Press day first thing and just do some speed pulls after squats and before your accessory work on the squat day. The key here is to not get carried away. I would also just use straight weight (no bands or chains).
I think working in DE Box Squats would be a little more difficult, and honestly I’d be tempted to use box jumps instead.
I would also only do this if I stalled and I thought speed work would help. If I were progressing on 5/3/1 then I wouldn’t change a single thing.
EDIT: Found it – http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/blood_and_chalk_volume_10[/quote]
Training Speed to Get Strong
–this is a phenomenal article that will help you out…
I am doing the routine you listed. Its is working for me. My lifts are going up and I am not gaining any weight. I have actually lost some weight. I am at 168 lbs and need to get down to 165 for a USAPL contest…then next year I will need to get down to 163 since the USAPL is changing their weight classes:(
Didn’t read every post so maybe this has been stated already, but Wendler has speed work implemented into his routine in the Beyond 531 book.
[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Didn’t read every post so maybe this has been stated already, but Wendler has speed work implemented into his routine in the Beyond 531 book. [/quote]
I think most posts in this thread of from before Beyond 5/3/1 came out.
Clint Darden has had a lot of success with his guys combining the two…