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531 for Hardgainers Rep Scheme

Jim Wendler 5/3/1 Coaching
#1

Hi Jim or anybody that can answer, the 531 for Hardgainers states that each lift has a different rep scheme. The squat has a widowmaker, press has 5x5 at 90% (I love that), some have PR + sets others don’t. If this has been answered already please point me to it, gracias.

Having done 5-3-1 in the past with great results I decided to try Hardgainer this time and I really like it. I’m just curious by nature and each time I’m doing widowmaker for squats but not for deads it always makes me wonder why it suits one but not the other. I’m sure there is a good reason, and yes Im a noob lol. Thanks for a great program.

#2

For me, the eccentric portion of the Squat makes for a great mass builder and that’s the idea there. High rep squatting has been detailed by many coaches before. A heavy deadlift is very taxing mentally and is the truest form of strength, 20 reps of a heavy deadlift would be a very tough recovery.

#3

Good point, especially on the DL. When i’ve gone hard in the past on DLs I feel like I’ve been a car wreck for the next two days, my CNS is jacked, I can’t think straight. Im too old for that now.

#4

Don’t quote me on this but I’m pretty sure in a recent forum Wendler himself recommended 5’s PRO with 3-5x5 FSL is the best way to go about deadlifts. That volume and intensity is found in about every program you’ll find.

#5

Please read the program - I believe you are misinterpreting much of the program.

#6

Thanks Jim. The volume in this program is perfect, its great which is what has me interested in digging deeper. The high volume DLs was mostly from my crossfit days not 531.

#7

Squats 5+ and 20 rep widow maker
Bench 5x5
DL 5+ and 5x5
Press 5 straight and 10x5

Atleast on my observation- I agree about the taxing nature of DL not running a widow maker but regardless you’re also still doing a 5+ set so still getting volume at a decent weight- been hitting near 15 reps on those sets lately and it feels damn taxing but it’s not the same mentally taxing as the 5+ squat set or the squat widow maker. I’d imagine the mental toughness work on the squat day is higher than their dead day on average for most people. I like how the pushing movements aren’t overblown with + sets etc because we’re getting in tons of volume anyways with assistance work. I prefer to pull a lot more than I push so works great for me. Seems like it can be a great primer for pushing movements for some specialty cycles later on.

#8

Its because normally squats are pushed harder. It has many reasons behind it, but it is completely okay to deadlift high reps. I’ve gotten my best PR’s after high rep DL FSL work.

#9

@ Rattus-
I like high rep deads too-
but there’s a little more to widow makers than just high reps. You never rack the bar
on squat widow makers for one- this gets a bit more complicated with deads.

Also- if you can do them with squats and deads in the same week- I’d question whether they are truly widow makers.

It sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

#10

Yeah. I definitely did not engourage to do widowmaker deads with widowmaker squats. If I would do widowmaker sets I might use RDL or do 20-rep sets just for squat and press.

I just got the expression that high rep deads were labelled as a bad option generally.

#11

Peary Rader said 20 rep deadlifts were even more effective than 20 rep squats as a gainer method. It was advised by Peary to hold the weight at the top while you did the deep breathing, never rest on the floor. If you were to try these I would use a Trap Bar and straps. I’m not specifically recommending them, just passing along some long forgotten wisdom.

1 Like
#12

Sounds fair enough!

Been doing Ben Bruno’s ‘100 rep trap bar workout’ lately. Into my 6th week and I’ve been shocked at the sudden gains round about the upper back and traps.