T Nation

52 Years Old and Dying, Literally

Well I am going to try this again I have been trying to right this for a couple of months and could not focus and stay on task to get it done. I am 52 have been extremely athletic my whole life, grew up in the country and worked very hard. I was always in good shape and strong which is probably what kept me from a broken back, I had an injury several years ago when a machine was dropped on my back which started a lot of my problems. I have had two back surgeries and take a lot of pain meds.

My body didn’t change for 20 years I wore the same size pants had a 33" waist I’m 6’4" but now I am putting on fat around my waist and everywhere else I am losing muscle and just skin and bones. I let things go too long before checking testosterone levels, I thought a lot of why I felt the way I do was because of my injuries. What’s crazy is that I told several Drs. what was going on with my body and they truly are idiots. I lost most of my hair on top of my head years ago which may have been a sign of what was going on and I just didn’t know it, but since I have lost all the hair on my lower legs I still have chest and facial hair but not as thick as it once was

I have so many symptoms and don’t know what is causing what, Fatigue I never sleep good always wake up more tired than when I went to bed. Ears ringing, super dry skin, constipation, cold all the time(especially hands and feet) even when it’s not cold, eyes blurry(always had good eye sight), Head aches, joint pain and no sex drive. I used to have sex almost daily and I have not had sex in several years, no morning wood no wood ever except sometimes when you need to pee.

I have had tests done 4 times since September and still have not got the Dr to run every test I asked for, trying to get all the ones KSman said to get. After several Drs. I wound up at a Urologist and was going to start test and then he says you know you would probably be a good candidate for Clomid, so on 1-10-14 started 25mg of Clomid and 4mg of Flowmax ed. Well now I have acne on my upper arms, delts and even on my butt cheeks so that has to go, I never had acne even as a teenager.

Like I said I’m 52 6’4" used to weigh 255 with 33" waist now weigh 200 or less with fat around waist.

Testicles do ache and I had an ultrasound done, it showed good blood flow but I do have a varicocele but Dr said let it go.

I have been checking my temps and early morning usually 96.1 or 96.3, the highest I have been getting later in the day is 97.3
I used to eat way to much salt and not as much now.

Sorry this is so long but trying to be thorough, now I’ll try the labs.

8-29-13
Testos 130.5 280-800 ng/dl

11-12-13 Quest Diagnostics
Testos 202 250-1100 ng/dl
Testos free 23.7 46.0-224 pg/ml
Testos bio 48.7 110.0-575.0 ng/dl
Shbg 35 10-50 nmol/l
Albumin, serum 4.5 3.6-5.1 g/dl

Vitamin D,25-oh,D3 11 30-100 ng/ml *
Vitamin D,25-oh,D2 <4

PSA 0.8 0.0-4.0 ng/ml
FT4 0.59 0.59-1.17 ng/dl
TSH 4.65 0.340-4.820 mIU/ml

CBC
wbc 7.0 4.8-10.8 x10^ 3/ul
rbc 4.83 4.70-6.10 x10^ 6/ul
hgb 13.9 12.0-18.0 g/dl
hct 41.8 37.0-52.0 %
mcv 87.0 80.0-94.0 fl
mch 28.8 27.0-31.0 pg
mchc 33.3 33.0-37.0 g/dl
rdw 12.4 11.5-14.5 %
plt 250 130-400 3/ul
mpv 7.7 7.0-10.0 fl
gran# 5.2 1.9-7.0 3/ul
lymph# 1.4 1.1-2.7 3/ul
mono# 0.4 0.0-1.8 3/ul
gran% 73.9 45.0-70.0 %
mono% 5.7 1.7-9.3 %
lymph% 20.4 20.0-45.0 %

CMP
glucose 98 70-110 mg/dl
bun 7 7-22 mg/dl
creatinine 1.0 0.6-1.3 mg/dl
bun/creat ratio 7.0 calc
sodium 136 136-145 meq/l
potassium 4.0 3.5-5.1 meq/l
chloride 106 98-107 meq/l
carbon dioxide 33 21-32 meq/l *
calcium 8.5 8.5-10.1 mg/dl
osmolality 279.9 280.0-300.0 *
total protein 7.0 6.4-8.2 g/dl
albumin 4.0 3.4-5.0 g/dl
a/g ratio 1.3 0.9-2.0
globulin 3.0 2.2-4.1 g/dl
alk phosphatase 167 50-136 *
alt(sgpt) 56 30-65 u/l
ast(sgot) 45 15-37 *
total bilirubin 0.5 0.0-1.0 mg/dl
gfr caucasion >60

12-19-13
libid profile
cholesterol 155 0-200 mg/dl
triglycerides 62 0-150 mg/dl
hdl cholesterol 37 40-60 mg/dl *
ldl direct 101 0-130 mg/dl
ldl calculated 106 0-130 cal
non hdl cholesterol 118 <130 calc
vldl cholesterol 12 calc
hdl risk factor 4.2 3.0-5.0 calc

CBC
wbc 8.4 4.8-10.8 x10^3/ul
rbc 4.80 4.70-6.10 x10^6/ul
hgb 13.8 12.0-18.0 g/dl
hct 41.0 37.0-52.0 %
mcv 85.0 80.0-94.0 fl
mch 28.8 27.0-31.0 pg
mchc 33.7 33.0-37.0 g/dl
rdw 12.0 11.5-14.5 %
plt 243 130-400 x10^3/ul
mpv 7.9 7.0-10.0 fl
gran# 5.1 1.9-7.0 x10^3/ul
lymph# 2.7 1.1-2.7 x10^3/ul
mono# 0.6 0.0-1.8 x10^3/ul
gran% 59.2 45.0-70.0 %
mono % 8.2 1.7-9.3 %
lymph % 32.6 20.0-45.0 %

CMP
glucose 91 70-110 mg/dl
bun 8 7-22 mg/dl
creatinine 1.1 0.6-1.3 mg/dl
bun/creat ratio 7.3 calc
sodium 146 136-145 meq/l *
potassium 3.3 3.5-5.1 meq/l *
chloride 109 98-107 meq/l *
carbon dioxide 32 21-32 meq/l
calcium 8.5 8.5-10.1 mg/dl
osmolality 299.9 280.0-300.0 calc
total protein 6.9 6.4-8.2 g/dl
albumin 3.9 3.4-5.0 g/dl
a/g ratio 1.3 0.9-2.0 calc
globulin 3.0 2.2-4.1 g/dl
alk phosphatase 163 50-136 mg/dl *
alt (sgpt) 74 30-65 u/l *
ast (sgot) 40 15-37 u/l *
total bilirubin 0.6 0.0-1.0 mg/dl
gfr caucasion >60 > 60 ml/min/1.73m^2

12-19-13 Quest Diagnostics
ESTADIOL, ULTRSENSITIVE 33 High <29 pg/ml * HI

1-20-14 Quest Diagnostics
FSH 2.0 1.6-8.0 miu/ml
LH 6.4 1.5-9.3 miu/ml
Free T3 3.1 2.3-4.2 pg/ml
Free T4 0.61 0.59-1.17 ng/dl
TSH 6.950 high 0.340-4.820 miu/ml *

Cortisol, total 19.7 mcg/dl (taken about 3:00 pm) *?
Range for 8am 4.0-22
Range for 4pm 3.0-17.0

BMP
glucose 91 70-110 mg/dl
bun 6 L 7-22 mg/dl *
creatinine 1.2 0.6-1.3 mg/dl
bun/creat ratio 5.0 calc
sodium 143 136-145 meq/l
potassium 3.3 L 3.5-5.1 meq/l *
chloride 105 98-107 meq/l
carbon dioxide 33 H 21-32 meq/l *
calcium 8.6 8.5-10.1 mg/dl
osmolality 293.2 280.0-300.0 calc

CBC
wbc 5.5 4.8-10.8 x10^3/ul
rbc 4.76 4.70-6.10 x10^ 6/ul
hgb 13.8 12.0-18.0 g/dl
hct 40.4 37.0-52.0 %
mcv 85.0 80.0-94.0 fl
mch 28.9 27.0-31.0 pg
mchc 34.1 33.0-37.0 g/dl
rdw 11.9 11.5-14.5 %
plt 232 130-400 x10^ 3/ul
mpv 7.3 7.0-10.0 fl
gran# 3.2 1.9-7.0 x10^ 3 /ul
lymph# 1.8 1.1-2.7 x10^ 3/ul
mono# 0.5 0.0-1.8 x10^ 3/ul
gran% 56.4 45.0-70.0 %
mono% 9.2 1.7-9.3 %
lymph% 34.4 20.0-45.0 %

I did start taking Vit D3, Fish Oil, Flaxseed, and Milk Thistle for my liver on 12-1-13
Sorry for the long book, any help with this mess will be greatly appreciated.

That is tough is spot. Sorry .

I am just starting the TRT path, so others here will be of greater help. The only advice I can give at this stage is search for and find the right doctor. I went the traditional route, and unfortuntaley was like walking into walls.

I did find a clinic, (unfortunately isnt cheap), but at least took a whole look at my panel, and they were looking to get me to optimal levels, not just within range.

Sounds like you may have several different things going on, with low T definitely being one of them. I’m no expert, but the thing that really jumps out is your low body temperatures - particularly after greatly reducing your salt intake. According to the writings of KSman, that definitely indicates an iodine deficiency. I’d start there.

There is for sure something going on with my thyroid among other things, I still eat salt I just used to eat way too much and cut back. I just have a lot going on with my body and hopefully someone will notice something specific with my labs. Thanks for your input, and I have considered going to an aging clinic but would like to be able to get straightened out with regular Drs but will do what ever it takes.

Find a good thyroid doc. Your temps and thyroid labs are huge red flags.

Your test is low, your D3 is horrendous, and your TSH is high.

My TSH was right where yours is and I felt like absolute shite. I couldn’t concentrate, had wonky erections, and couldn’t stay awake mid-afternoon. " Fatigue I never sleep good always wake up more tired than when I went to bed. Ears ringing, super dry skin, constipation, cold all the time(especially hands and feet) even when it’s not cold…" This is textbook hypothyroidism.

You could start supplementing with Vit D immediately on your own, 5000iu per day (some people will tell you more, some might say less). Read the thyroid posts in this section to learn more about your TSH.

I would first tackle your Vit D, then thyroid, then retest your test levels.

<------------------ Not an MD.

What meds / painmeds are you taking ?
Many of them beat that hell out of your endocrine system.

The injury, combined with inactivity (that you are used to) and then
painmeds are a combination that will ruin your quality of life.

Thank you guys for the responses, first let me say that I didn’t list that on Dec 1st I started taking Vit D3, fish oil, milk thistle, and flaxseed and I will go back and edit that. Pain meds are Oxycontin, Oxycodone, and Lyrica and I wish I had known that they will make your T levels low. I am trying to find a Thyroid Dr, I live in a small town and not enough Drs to go around plus you have to have a referral. It’s a racket. I went to the PCP last week and they were supposed to have rt3 on those test an I guess they took it off, and when the TSH came back at 6.950 up from the 4.65 my Dr said your on Synthroid aren’t you and I said no. His response we will bring you back in about 3 months and retest you, I said so you just want me to live with it until then…“yep”.

Can anyone tell me anything about my FSH and LH numbers, where they are and what is effecting them. I am also going to get some iodine per the stickies. Again thank you all so much.

52yo 6’4" 255lbs 33" waist would be impressive for a 25yo on a decent amount of gear.

Your problem is the oxy.
Before you mess around with Thyroid meds, TRT etc, is there some way
you could live with out the meds ? If so, I’d bet you would regain your prior form,
or most of it.

If you can’t give up the pain meds, your symptoms can be treated, but the results won’t
ever get you back to where you were. And it’ll be a real fight to get what you need.

I wish I had never took the first pain med, all this stuff has literally ruined my life and I don’t think at my age I will even be able to get back in good shape. I never took a steroid in my life just worked hard and tried to keep myself in decent shape, and I have lost basically 25% of my body weight and have aged a lot in the last couple of years.

I have so much stress and anxiety that I have turned into a hermit. I was never emotional and now it is so bad, my T to E2 ratio is way out of whack. I don’t know why Drs want to fight getting tests done so much. I don’t know anyone that I can talk to that knows anything about this stuff, I’m just trying to figure it out as I go. I was kind of hoping that if I got my T levels and this thyroid stuff worked out that a lot of my pains would ease up and could do away with the meds.

How come they have the pm locked on this site? And on a side note PKNY I see you are from Ga, so am I maybe one day I might have to pick your brain for a decent DR in the area. Thanks again to everyone

Ah man, that sucks.
Doctors throw pain meds at people like they are candy, and it’s really irresponsible of them.
For many it begins a downward spiral of dependence and addiction.

On the positive side of things, steroids were created to combat muscle wasting due to illness
and disease. Getting your T to e2 ratio back to a favorable balance, and your thyroid sorted out
will definitely help with strength and perhaps healing of your injury. Although there are better steroids
that are more suited to help soft tissue, and tendon type injuries vs TRT.

The anxiety / withdrawn issues you are having are more due to the negative effects of the opiates
you are taking. That’s the hell of pain killers and anti anxiety drugs…they cause more anxiety when you
come down then you had before you take them…so you take more and so on and so on.

What exactly was your injury ? Are you disabled from it ?

You are exactly right about them handing pain meds out like candy, and don’t get me wrong I wasn’t saying steroids were bad just that I had never taken any. People say all the time you can’t get big and strong without them and that’s just not right, I would take them today if it was something that would help me get this crap fixed. See my hormones and injury and everything else out of whack I don’t know what is causing different symptoms, I am just miserable. Some people dropped a vending machine on my back from about 8’ in the air off a fork truck, and years later they made me quit work and that was the worst thing that could have happened.I just don’t know enough about this stuff to know which way to go. Thanks for your reply

I hear where you are coming from. I am 53 years old and experienced a lot of what you are talking about. I had a lot of back and neck problems and was on different pain meds for about 10 years. I believe they are what contributed to the problem. Since TRT and cutting back on pain meds I have made major improvements. At one point I was on 50mg of methadone a day. I am now down to 10mg and will be switching to liquid methadone so I can go down 1mg every 2 weeks.

If there is anyway you can get off the pain meds, or a least maintain on a smaller dose, I believe it would make a big difference in the way you feel. With that said you also have some other issues with thyroid, etc. Read all the stickies and educate yourself. Stay on top of labs and find a doc that knows what he doing.

Hi Ironman

I’m 57 and have also been in declining health these past few years Im a new member here and only have very entry level knowledege about T and HRT. Basically I don’t know shit. What I do know is that I knew I had to do something - sounds like you are there as well… You may not like the sound of this but I’ve managed to completely turn my world upside down just by changing my diet… I won’t get into any particulars cuz it really doesn’t matter right now. I just wanted to throw it out there and let you know that you may be able to make a huge impact with enormous potential to improve your health and well being. My thyroid and adrenals were (are?) all F’d up. Free and total T way low. I’ve been on HRT for a few years now and it helped but didn’t seem to have much of an impact on my overall declining health. When I looked in the mirror this am I couldnt believe the changes and it’s only been like 3 months - just a beginning.

Don’t be discouraged. You’ll get it figured out. Given the right tools and help the body has incredible power to heal itself and shit at only 52 you’ll be rockin it again before you know it. Because of reduced inflammation in my body I’m doing things now like running for a workout that I was sure would never happen again - ever.

Like you, I’ve also been frustrated trying to find a local doc that can help me get the HRT thing figured out and all the critical factors balanced and correct. I’m just slapping the Androgel on every am and that’s about it… probably better than nothing. What I put in my body is a whole different matter. It’s not so hard to wade through all the bs and figure it out. And at this point I don’t give a crap what anyone says or thinks cuz the results speak - well they actually scream - loud and clear. I’m waking up again in my life and you can do the same - anyone can if they are really serious about it and not just kicking tires.

It makes sense to me that if we put nothing but the best, most nutrient dense fuel in our body, that we will develop the healthiest heart and organs, endocrine system, all of it… Am I over simplifying here? Then when we have a really healthy base line, we can go after the hormone balance to shore up the age related decline and / or other issues we’ve developed as we age… Maybe it could help you reduce or get off the drugs in time as well.

Again good luck to you as you go forward! I will be following along as I too want to get my hormone levels to an optimal level and learn to understand how to keep it that way…

Jack

Cobra and Parajack thanks for the input, we have to consider everything and reducing pain meds is a big one. I’ve already done that on my own and cobra I’m talking hundreds of MG a day, so believe me I know what you mean. Parajack as far as diet you are right if you can get nutrient rich food, my problem is it is just me so I have to work on better meals instead of fast food which I am working on.

Like I said I let this go too long and now I have to get it all figured out a little at a time. I know my Thyroid and Low T are problems just like Vit D, but I’m trying to figure out like my FSH and LH numbers. I have to some how get my RT3 test, I had it on the last form but for some reason when I got the results it was not there and that is an important one.

Guy’s I appreciate all the input and good luck with your search for answers. Thank you all

Since starting on 25 mg of clomid ed I have developed acne on my upper arms and delts, even on my butt cheeks but I had gotten some on my back(really small just all over) before starting the clomid. So does anybody have experience with whether it would be a side effect from the clomid or the high E2 or is that one and the same?

[quote]ironman4850 wrote:
Since starting on 25 mg of clomid ed I have developed acne on my upper arms and delts, even on my butt cheeks but I had gotten some on my back(really small just all over) before starting the clomid. So does anybody have experience with whether it would be a side effect from the clomid or the high E2 or is that one and the same?[/quote]

I started the same dosage of Clomid about 2 months ago, and have not experienced any of the reported sides. I don’t have an accurate E2 count, what I do know it’s less than 20, which I know is not much help.

u r hypothyroid from low temps…check dhea…check igf 1
high urine volume? might have diabetes insipidus
Flaxseed, and Milk Thistle are anti androgenic- STOP IMMEDIATELY AND FOR GOOD. RESEARCH IT. ULL FEEL LIKE CRAP ON THOSE LONG TERM.

Aldosterone could be low as serum sodium is on low side. I am hypopituitary so I know all of this from experience not from just a medical textbook. hair mineral analysis and spectracell white blood cell nutrient analysis need to be ordered by u to see possible deficiencies.

Maybe your withdrawing from the painkillers oxy cotin is powerful

This looks like hypothyroidism, at least its what is causing most of your symptoms and causing your lab value to be what they are. The key is your TSH (high TSH is dx of hypothyroidism). Its rather common to see in people of your age. A majority of your symptoms are NOT the cause of testosterone levels being low, so please STOP with the clomid and go see a doctor who knows what he is doing and tell him you suspect you have hypothyroidism. He will evaluate you with that in mind and give you the most proper diagnosis based on your history, physical, and laboratory findings. hypothyroidism is very treatable with medication, with mild adverse affects. Best of luck to you.