T Nation

52 and I'm in for the Long Haul


#1

52 yo, 12% BF, bacterial prostatitis, no other drugs or meds, rarely drink
other than some very basic tendon surgery, i’m in good shape. been lifting for 30 years

read all the sticky’s multiple times…shit ton of info…ksMan…wow, you have to figure out how to make some $ from all your knowledge. What a help your info has been!

I’m sure I’m fucking something up or missed something significant, its going too well. Looking for feedback

pre TRT was hanging at 190lbs with 12% + BF, no morning wood, major loss of libido, tired all day, no get up and go attitude. slightly below normal temps in the a.m… Was busting ass in the gym, only to take a few days off and go back and feel/look i never lifted…very frustrating…a lot of this was mental, wife was very happy with how i looked. but i didn’t feel the way i was perceived or how i felt when i was in my 30’s or even 40’s. Really started to change about 3 yrs ago.

3rd week in of TRT, 192lbs and visible body fat loss and increased strength, morning wood returned, libido greatly increased, improved sense of well being, slight improvement in cognitive function. Ran 25000iu of vit D per day for a week, now down to 6000 iu per day. added iodized salt…we used pink salt for years. My prostatitus is gone! back to regular romps with the wife!

I’ve always had a dialed in diet, so I’m starting TRT at a good point

gave blood prior to starting test. will be giving blood every 60 days
running HCG 3x week (.5cc each pin) forgot the strength
test 2x week, 1ml each pin of 200mg/ml enanthate
anastrozole 1mg 2x week same time TRT pin (Monday morning/Thursday night)

Pre TRT blood work: below results done at 7am, 12 hour fasting

CBC With Differential/Platelet
WBC 5.0 x10E3/uL (reference range 3.4-10.8)
RBC 4.82 x10E6/uL (4.14-5.8)
hemoglobin 14.6 g/dL (12.6-17.7)
MCV 91 fL (79-97)
MCH 30.3 pg (26.6-33.0)
MCHC 33.4 g/dL (31.5-35.7)
RDW 13.8% (12.3-15.4)
platelets 240 x10E3/uL (150-379)
neutrophils 46% (no ref)
lymphs 44% (no ref)
monocytes 8% (no ref)
Eos 2% (no ref)
Basos 0% (no ref)
neutrophils absolute 2.3 x10E3/uL (1.4-7.0)
lymphs absolute 2.2 x10E3/uL (0.7-3.1)
monocytes absolute 0.4 x10E3/uL (0.1-0.9)
Eos absolute 0.1 x10E3/uL (0.0-0.4)
Baso absolute 0.0 x10E3/uL (0.0-0.2)
imature granulocytes 0% (no ref)
immature grans (abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL (0.0-0.1)

COMP METABOLIC PANEL
Glucose serum 94mg/dL (65-99)
BUN 15mg/dL (6-24)
Creatinine serum 1.17mg/dL (0.76-1.27)
eGFR (if african am, which I’m not) 71mL/min/1.73 (>59)
eGFR 82mL/min/1.73 (>59)
BUN/creatinine ratio 13 (9-20)
sodium serum 142 mmol/L (134-144)
potassium serum 4.7 mmol/L (3.5-5.2)
chloride serum 102 mmol/L (96-106)
carbon dioxide total 24 mmol/L (18-29)
calcium serum 9.2 mg/dL (8.7-10.2)
protein total serum 6.8 g/dL (6.0-8.5)
albumin serum 4.1g/dL (3.5-5.5)
globulin total 2.7 g/dL (1.5-4.5)
A/G ratio 1.5 (1.2-2.2)
bilirubin total 0.9 mg/dL (0.0-1.2)
alkaline phosphate S 53 IU/L (39-117)
AST (SGOT) 24 IU/L (0-40)
ALT (SGPT) 16 IU/L (0-44)

LIPID PANEL
cholesterol total 151 mg/dL (100-199)
triglycerides 104 mg/dL (0-149)
HDL 47 mg/dL (>39)
VLDL 21mg/dL (5-40)
LDL 83 md/dL (0-99)
LDL/HDL ratio 1.8 (0.0-3.6) puts me at half the average risk according to the lab notes

THYROID PANEL
TSH 1.530 uIU/mL (0.450-4.500)
Thyroxine T4 6.5 ug/dL (4.5-12.0)
T3 uptake 30% (24-39)
Free thyroxine index 2.0 (1.2-4.9)

TEST/FREE & TOTAL
test serum 333 ng/dL (448-1197)
free test 10.4 pg/mL (7.2-24.0)

LH 5.7 mIU/mL (1.7-8.6)
FSH 15.9 mIU/mL (1.5-12.4) HIGH

hemoglobin A1c 5.4% (4.8-5.6) below the 5.7 threshold of low end to be considered pre-diabetic

DHEA sulfate 347.4 ug/dL 71.6-375.4)

cortisol 10.9 ug/dL (a.m reading ref range 6.2-19.4) my reading was at 7am

estradiol 16.8 pg/mL (7.6-42.6)

prostate specific Ag serum 0.9 ng/mL (0.0-4.0)

IGF-1 173 ng/mL (61-200)

Vit D 23.0 ng/mL (30.0-100.0) LOW -

C reactive protein 0.82 mg/L (0.00-3.00)

homocyst plasma 7.7 umol/L (0.0-15.0)

uric acid serum 8.0 mg/dL (3.7-8.6)

progesterone <0.1 ng/mL (0.0-0.5)

insulin 4.8 uIU/mL (2.6-24.9)

ferritin 855 ng/mL (30-400)

SHBG 35.0 nmol/L (19.3-76.4)


#2

I also have prostatitis but no bacteria ever shows up. I also had eppididimytis. Had this for 5 years. No real pain, just an irritated feeling. My urine stream is a bit weak and my stream sometimes splits.
Flomax helps a little.


#3

right now i think i’m in a good place. i would usually get a flare up after sex and it always hit me at night, at least 2x a month…and yes, weak stream. But since i’ve been on TRT, its gone. Even my urine stream got stronger. E2 is lower since i’m taking the AI and I know that affects the prostrate. i didn’t even consider that TRT would have this positive side affect.


#4

TSH should be closer to 1.0
T4 well below midrange
uptake and index are obsolete, please test ft3 fT4

Your testes failed, primary hypogonadism.

ferritin 855 is bad
avoid iron fortified: rice, flour, pasta, breads, cereals - read labels

Cholesterol: Getting too low, better @180

Why blood donations?
Hematocrit [HTC] high?

BP?
Pulse?

Pink salt ruins lives.
How are your body temps and your wifes? She needs thyroid labs.

“figure out how to make some $ from all your knowledge”

  • me too!

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.

I can be a bit abrupt in my replies and recommendations. I have a lot of ground to cover as this forum has become much more active in the last two years. I can’t follow threads that go deep over time. You need to respond to all of my points and requests as soon as possible before you fall off of my radar. The worse problems are guys who ignore issues re thyroid, body temperatures, history of iodized salt. Please do not piss people off saying that lab results are normal, we need lab number and ranges.

The value that you get out of this process and forum depends on your effort and performance. The bulk of your learning is reading/studying the suggested stickies.


#5

thanks for the interest KSman…

yeah…fucking testes failed. First time in my life i can say i didn’t have the balls!

the ferritin has me concerned. I’ve read a few studies that link high ferritin to alzheimer’s. diet is certainly going to get some focus…trying to understand if there are any additional things i can do to reduce this quickly.

funny to see the note “cholesterol is to low”…but i understand the reasoning…

yes…blood donations to control what i see has an elevated hematocrit, thought better safe than sorry, plus help out some unfortunate soul at the same time. I have O neg, so i’m universal.

BP is 130/80, resting heart is 64 beats/min. I took a modafinil at noon,so my BP is probably elevated (i have my own cuff and stethoscope)

and yes…pink salt is fucking everyone up. Your sticky’s were an eye opener. My wife has has hashimotos since she was in her 20’s, wonder if there is a connection. i’ll be working on getting her straightened out.

regarding ft3 and fT4…since I’m running my TRT protocol, will the results be meaningful still?


#6

Did I read this right? … 2x week 1ml each pin of 200mg/ml? That’s 400mg a week, way too much.


#7

Topgunner1
Same shit with me, mine flares up after sex as well. If i ejaculate, my prostate is irritated for 3 day.

Wonder if the Thyroid can cause prostate issues?


#8

Blshaw, You did read that correctly. I will run for 6 weeks, then back it down over the following 4 to 6 weeks to eventuality settle in at the 150 to 200 range, depending on my test results and how I feel.

My fist time and I’m trying to find the sweet spot. I can tell you that right now, I feel fantastic.

I’m interested in any thoughts or comments based on experience from your perspective. Like I said, it’s my fist time and I’m sure to do something I think is ok, but not fully understand the ramifications . That’s why I’m here!


#9

I know the prostrate has thyroid hormone receptors and the receptors are affected by iodine. KSman really pushes the thyroid/iodine issue, and for good reason.

Have you ever had a complete thyroid panel done? Could be a part of the puzzel.


#10

You’re currently taking too much test. It will not help you find your steady state levels and only cause problems. 400mg a week is a steroid cycle. I would switch docs as only and idiot would start you on that.


#11

Throwing an update out there in the chance someone might find it useful or interesting.

I’m just entering week 8. First 5 weeks had great mood and libido, everything going great. Week 6, my E2 went sideways, so I stopped the anastrozole and upped the hcg by 10cc. Took week 6 to get back to where I was.

Just started1/2 dose of AI. and staying with the increased hcg and continue with 400mg per week (Monday 200mg and Thursday 200mg pin)

Other than the week or so of E2 screw up, I have never felt better. I’ve gained quite a bit of muscle. Went from 188 to 198. Lost some % of body fat, confidence very high, libido very healthy. Have had some issue sleeping, blood pressure has gone up a bit. I’ll be getting blood work next week and will post.

In a few weeks, I’ll be pulls g back on dose and get to a try maintenance level.

Yes, it’s a AAS dose. I have low t and will be on trt for life. Where my final maintenance dose ends up is TBA.


#12

That is some serious bro TRT here

Are you one of those bloated guys at the gym with the attitude
"Don’t you ever talk shit about me or my mates being on AAS, we have a medical condition"

Just wondering


#13

Glad to hear you’re having such a good response. I’m 53, was feeling like crap, no libido, periodic prostatitis too. In my case, E2 and prolactin were both high and I’ve been focusing on those before considering TRT. Already feeling so much better! I’m encouraged by positive stories like yours, because I’d like to try TRT as a way to combat ‘metabolic syndrome’. Once my E2 therapy is dialed in, I’ll probably give it a go.


#14

Lol…far from it. Running test only brings out the asshole if you’re already one. In fact, the results for me have been just the opposite. My mood and improved confidence has only improved my overall outlook and relationships.

As for bloating, again, good results…haven’t had any water retention to speak of and skin remains clear…


#15

Good luck you keigwin…it was a big decision to go this route…life time choice. I just want to be in control of my quality of life, and in the final assessment, knowing that it was heavily influenced by my chemistry/biology I needed to embrace chemistry/biology to try to get the quality back.


#16

Wow, I’m a 22 year old and our free test levels are the same. I’m really considering TRT. Hope it goes well for you.


#17
  • not connection

#18

new updates:

been running per day: 6000iu D3, 3500 mg saw palmetto, 800mg EPA, 400mg DHA, zinc/magnesium/B6 (in form of ZMA), 2000mg curcumin, 3000 mg NAC

started at 400ml per week for 8 weeks…down to 200ml T per week. Currently starting my 12th week today (9/25/17) , working down to 100ml per week over next 2 weeks

recently had to run apprx 2.5 mg arimiodex per week to get my E in line (i let it get too high). My current number is 23.5. Backing down to .25mg EOD now.

HCG 400 iu per week currently, down to 250iu when i hit the 100ml T mark

Some observations:
It was a great ride when i was at 400 ml, and even at 200 ml. my body has really responded…but i’m chasing E and some of my labs have changed significantly. PSA, liver function tests, BUN and T for sure.

I’ve been sleeping, but feel tired all day, like in a dream state. I’m concerned about adrenal (as you’ll see in the test results). difficult to get erections, morning wood intermittent, strength in gym still good, not adding body fat, sometimes night sweats, mood is good, seems like T has given my more frequent stools and gas. I’ve donated blood since I’ve started. Seems like the seet spot lasted about 2 weeks…then its been a chore to get the levels correct. I’m really bummed about the PSA number. Thought with the prostitius issues gone, the PSA would be great. Getting a doctors appt set up currently. Hate to think i have to come off TRT

labs taken at 7am with fasting. labs were taken on 9/23 from Labcorp…i’m providing a percentage change form the labs taken on 6/26, pre TRT…thought that might be interesting for some people.

I’m making a spread sheet to track blood work, calculate changes over time and placed key info for each test as a reference to better understands what the blood work represents. I’d be curious to know if anyone else has made any type of tracker for their blood work.Would share spread sheets if interested. Mine isn’t complete and is very basic…but it helps track…its too hard to look from one lab sheet to the next.

Also, good reference site for lab info.
www.labtestsonline.org

WBC result- 5.5 range-(3.4-10.8) up 10% from last blood work on 6/26 which was prior to TRT
RBC 5.19 (4.14-5.8) up 8%
hemoglobin 16 (12.6-17.7) up 10%
hemotocrit 47.5 (37.5-51) up 9%
MCV 92 (79-97) up 1%
MCH 30.8 (26.6-33) up 2%
MCHC 33.7 (31.5-35.7) up 1%
RDW 13.7 (12.3-15.4) down 1%
platelets 316 (150-379) up 32%
neutrophils 45 (no ref) down 2%
lymphs 37% (no ref) down 16%
monocytes 8% (no ref) no change
Eos 9% (no ref) up 450%…yes, you are reading that correctly. last result was 2%
Basos 1% (no ref) was at 0% last results
neutrophils 24. (1.4-7.0) up 4%
lymphs absolute 2 (.7-3.1) down 10%
monocytes .5 (0.1-0.9) up 25%
EOS absolute .5 (0.0-0.4) up 500%…this is also correct
Baso absolute 0 (0.0-0.2) no change

glucose serum 94 (65-99) no change
BUN 30 (6-24) up 200%…
BUN/Creatinine ratio 26 (9-20) up 200%
sodium 83 (134-144) down 42%
potassium 4.9 (3.5-5.2) up 4%

I wont bore you with the others ones, but I’ll hit the highlights:

AST and ALT went up significantly (175% and 200% increase)
total cholesterol 168 (100-199) up 11%
triglycerides 70 (0-149) went down 33%
HDL 50 (>39) went up 6%
LDL 104 (0-99) up 25%
VLDL 14 (5-40) down 33%
LDL/HDL ratio 2.1 (0.0-3.6) up 17%

TSH 2.25 (.450-4.5) up 47%
Thyroxine (t4) 5.9 (4.5-12.0) down 10%
t3 uptake 27 (24-39) down 10%
free thyroxine 1.6 (1.2-4.9) down 20%
t4 direct 1.03 (.82-1.77) didn’t have this checked last time

test 1414 (348-1197) up 430% …from 333
free test 37.1 (7.2-24.0) up 357%

LH 0.1 (1.7-8.6) I was at 5.7 last test…so huge drop
FSH <.2 (1.5-12.4)…was high last test at 15.9

DHEA 202.8 (71.6-375.3) down 40%
cortisol 13.6 (6.2-19.4) up 25%

prolactin 12.7 (4.0-15.2) did not test this prior to TRT

estradiol 23.5 (7.6-42.5) up 49%

PSA THIS IS A BIG ONE 6.8 (0.0-4.0) up 760% (was .9 prior to TRT)

IGF-1 245 (61-200) up 47%

C reactive protein .72 (0.0-3.0) down 23%)

uric acid 5.4 (3.7-8.6) down 33%

progesterone .2 (0.0-0.5) up from what was less than .1

insulin 6.7 (2.6-24.9) up 40%

ferritin 36 (30-400) DOWN from 855

t3 free 3.1 (2.0-4.4) did not test this last time

SHBG 28.6 (19.3-76) down 20%


#19

Thyroid labs suggest lack of iodine.
fT3 is the active hormone and you have enough to support energy and body temperatures. But you have not reported waking and mid-afternoon oral body temps. If low, stress may be the cause elevating rT3. Read the sticky. You can get some iodine 150mcg and 200mcg selenium in a high potency b-complex multi-vit -not including iron.


#20

Ferritin may be showing effects of blood donation(s), do not donate for a while now. Odd that hemoglobin is then good, probably a limit of my understanding.

Low ferritin has an associated risk of reduced T4–>T3 conversion, again, fT3 is OK.

Do not test LH/FSH on TRT as these -->zero.

DHEA-S can be down from TRT reduced cholesterol–>pregnenolone in the testes. hCG is providing some support, could be worse without.

Nice increase of AM cortisol.