500 mg Test Cyp - Aromasin Starter Dose

Pharma / TRT
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I started my first run last week and have just had my second dose of 250 mg test cyp. I will mostly be clean bulking. The day before I began, I got my E2 checked. I just got my results from Quest and my E2 was at 18 pg/mL, with Quest’s range from undetectable (<15 pg/mL IIRC) to 40 pg/mL. (Labcorp’s range is similar.) My E2 is possibly suppressed due to years of daily tramadol usage, though the research I’ve seen into decreased estrogen levels in habitual synthetic opioid users focuses on the levels in women rather than men… Fortunately, tramadol has not been shown to lower test levels, unlike true opiates and most semisynthetics.

I did my homework and have everything I need on hand for a 12 week cycle followed by PCT, including hCG, aromasin, nolva, clomid, OTC Nizoral, dandelion root and milk thistle. I think the only thing I lack is propecia and accutane, the former of which I probably won’t need based on family history, and the latter which kinda scares me. :stuck_out_tongue: I also take all the usual supplements.

I thought before I got my E2 result that 8 mg EOD of aromasin would be probably be a decent starter dose before I get E2 checked again at 6 weeks. I know 12.5 mg is a standard starter dose, but based on how many people crash their estrogen taking the standard starter dose of arimidex, I’m a little leery of dosing too high. I get that most people would rather have their estrogen too low than too high, but my E2 is already on the low end.

Keeping in mind I will definitely be having mid- and post-cycle bloodwork, what sort of EOD dose of aromasin would you start me on?

My logic is that, because my E2 is currently on the low side, I have a higher margin of error for dosing low than for dosing high. I could dose low and end up with 50 pg/mL at week 6 and be able to correct within a week or two without growing too much of the wrong kind of chest or putting on too much belly fat. On top of that, I was a fat kid, and briefly a fat adult (220 lbs or so–150ish for the last decade), yet I never had much fat on my chest, my nipples have never been at all puffy, etc., leading me to think I’m not terribly gyno-vulnerable.

What do you think about starting on 8 mg aromasin EOD? My first dose will be Wednesday (Day 6 after the first test injection).

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I think you’re low enough that I would agree with your thought process. But I’d dose even lower, down to 6.25mg. Plus it’s easier to dose that way with 25mg pills, you know?

I’ll say this: you have done your homework. Seriously. You researched the meds you’re taking, you got blood work, you thought about it scientifically, and then you asked for a second opinion. That’s top notch harm reduction, my friend.

FTR I felt much, much worse with e2 below 20 than I do now at 38. If it was a choice between higher vs lower I’d take higher every single time. You need a healthy amount of e2 for muscle growth anyway.

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Thanks so much for the kind words and support. Me and harm reduction go back 15 years to my more acutely psychoactive high school and college days. I was the kid with the pill test reagents in his car. :stuck_out_tongue: I’ll start at about 6 mg then. I suspect I’ll feel better around the upper bounds of normal E2, as well.

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Heh well, it turns out I did not prepare so well. The only raw I ended up with was aromasin. I’ve now confirmed from the chemical properties that it is mislabeled/fake. Everything else I have is either pharma or a certain common semi-pharma. I don’t know if I’m going to end up with an AI at all now. I only bought the raw after the pills sat in customs for 3 weeks (and are still there).

Harm reduction fail: not at least confirming insolubility of the powder in water before starting cycle. Then it would have been obvious it was fake.

This could get interesting. :confused: It seems starting nolva now as a hopefully temporary alternative is all I can do. Any thoughts on that? I’m pretty damn worried. I need the psychological effects much less than I need the gyno…

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Ouch. That’s pretty rough. If your raw supplier is who I think it is then that’s very troubling. Your best bet now is probably finding a last-resort AI, which usually means a liquid from a research chem site. That’s always dicey, but at this point you don’t have much choice. Unless you are inclined to risk it with a domestic source, you’re down to one option only.

For the sake of explanation I will reiterate that we are not permitted to discuss sources here. Otherwise I would happily point you in the right direction. For now I would say you should look into research chem companies or hop on to one of the more source-intensive forums like meso and see what options are available to you. Best of luck.

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I’m pretty sick about this, but I think that reflexively aborting the cycle is probably among the worst things I could do right now. I’m starting with low or borderline E2, I don’t have any history of gyno/puffy nipples, and I still have a full PCT regiment for recovering from a suboptimal cycle. There’s a possibility that my aromasin in customs will arrive, or that the raw supplier makes it right.

I’ve read a lot of conflicting things about SERMs during cycle, from them being helpful, to them being counterproductive and actually increasing E2. There’s a reason I had never even considered it till finding myself in this situation… Looking at 15-year-old threads, it was once fairly common during cycle, though mostly wrong-headed reasoning it seems. Would you save it, or start a conservative 10 mg EOD? I know it only benefits certain tissues.

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I’ve relaxed a bit and am going to proceed as scheduled, meaning I will have my 250 mg test cyp tomorrow. I’ll get my E2 checked earlier than planned, probably in 3 weeks (4 weeks after first bloodtest and first injection) unless people consider that too early to tell me much. If things continue to go well, another E2 test at 8 weeks.

At the very first indication of gyno (which is generally soreness, with puffiness without soreness often indicating water retention instead, based on the thousand anecdotes I’ve read this afternoon), I’ll halt and PCT without a second thought.

I’m okay with gaining more fat than I would if taking an AI and possibly not gaining as much lean mass due to elevated E2. Aesthetics are only for me and my mirror, and I can get rid of fat easily as I don’t really care about food. I also don’t care if my sex drive drops. Sex and masturbation has always been a burden to me not unlike eating.

It’s still possible my original arimidex (which I had decided on before changing my mind in favor of aromasin) order will show up, but if necessary I would probably receive a reship mid-cycle.

I know this is the wrong thing to do in a strict sense, but knowing myself, I would regret not making the most of the window I have available for a long time. I weigh that against the fact that I would regret giving myself tits for the rest of my life, but that the more likely result is I come out of this okay. I have four months set aside for this project, and I’ll probably be in my 40s before another opportunity comes.

I’m sure such justifications sound familiar… The difference, I guess, would be that I won’t screw around for more than a day or two once I see early signs.

Opinions, scoldings and the like always welcome.

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You may not need to do that. Using a SERM will eliminate that issue, or at least it does in most guys. I think you’ll end up alright, man. Aside from getting bunk stuff, you’ve done it all the right way. Just don’t beat yourself up too much over it. Sources are drug dealers and drug dealers aren’t known to be the most honest folks in the world.

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I really appreciate that encouragement after the last 24 hours of going back and forth on this… I’m just glad I discovered the fake/mislabel (being kind) now and not when my E2 comes back high and my psyche’s messed up.

I also have NAC and DIM on the way. They seem to qualify as “it might not help, but it probably won’t hurt either” supplements which I have quite a few of, heh.

I’ll continue to post updates. Maybe in the end it will make someone in a similar situation feel better, or scare them the fuck away, depending on how the tale wraps.

There’s no need for me to take a SERM until signs of issues then? Is there a reason nolva is more common mid-cycle than clomid among people without an AI? It’s more difficult to find info about this as SERM during a cycle is sort of an off-label use of an off-label use in this age.

Thank you again, by the way.

Edit: Are the dumb smilies giant-sized for everyone else? I’d turn them off if I could. They’re small in the preview.