maybe peterm has a point? how many guys over 50yrs can continue to add muscle without “hormonal assistance”? the emphasis here is on “continue”! ok, someone thats over 50 and NEW to strength-training will almost certainly (given decent nutrition and routine) add some muscle, lose some fat, etc. but what about guys that already have a few years (or decades) training behind them; isnt “maintaining” the best that can be hoped for?
[quote]tokon wrote:
maybe peterm has a point? how many guys over 50yrs can continue to add muscle without “hormonal assistance”? the emphasis here is on “continue”! ok, someone thats over 50 and NEW to strength-training will almost certainly (given decent nutrition and routine) add some muscle, lose some fat, etc. but what about guys that already have a few years (or decades) training behind them; isnt “maintaining” the best that can be hoped for?[/quote]
Is anybody listening? Am I talking to myself again?
I pass on this one. Someone else care to try?
Rick
What’s the point in asking the question “can I build muscle mass after the age of 50”. What are your alternatives? Not lift? I don’t think so. Enjoy the heft of the weight and how if makes you feel. One thing is for sure if you lift at any age you will improve and if you don’t you will get weeker and feel the effects of your age. So, the bottom line is “just lift”.
Rik,
I honestly do appreciate your sentiments and the time that you have taken in writing but I have, to echo a previous poster, decades of lifting weights behind me and my experience is
simply that no or no significant muscle gain over 50 is going to happen with such a history- and maybe even without it.
As in my experience this is a general
phenomenon I attribute this to simply not having the appropriate hormonal environment to permit muscle development so it is not a question of effective routines, hard training nutrition and sleep. I wish it were otherwise but that is my observation from years of experience and it would be dishonest of me to say differently.
Of course there are many other benefits to training but I am simply addressing the question raised. Unlike the previous poster I think that it is a fair question to ask.
[quote]Dan V. wrote:
What’s the point in asking the question “can I build muscle mass after the age of 50”. What are your alternatives? Not lift? I don’t think so. Enjoy the heft of the weight and how if makes you feel. One thing is for sure if you lift at any age you will improve and if you don’t you will get weeker and feel the effects of your age. So, the bottom line is “just lift”.[/quote]
Ditto
[quote]peterm533 wrote:
Rik,
I honestly do appreciate your sentiments and the time that you have taken in writing but I have, to echo a previous poster, decades of lifting weights behind me and my experience is
simply that no or no significant muscle gain over 50 is going to happen with such a history- and maybe even without it.
As in my experience this is a general
phenomenon I attribute this to simply not having the appropriate hormonal environment to permit muscle development so it is not a question of effective routines, hard training nutrition and sleep. I wish it were otherwise but that is my observation from years of experience and it would be dishonest of me to say differently.
Of course there are many other benefits to training but I am simply addressing the question raised. Unlike the previous poster I think that it is a fair question to ask.[/quote]
Ok I give up Peter. Maybe it’s time for you to invest in one of these
http://snipurl.com/SomethingForPeter
Rick
Come on Rick, this is a disagreement over a physiological process not a
lifetyle directive to spend more time
with your feet up contemplating the meaning of life.
Tonight I ran, tomorrow I will lift weights and on Saturday I will hit the mats for some wrestling. I cannot run as fast, lift as much or wrestle any where near as well as I used to. I wish it were otherwise but just wishing it doesn’t make it so.
The reality is that I have declined and will continue to do so. Accepting that reality is not the same as giving up.
Shut up and Train!..
[quote]Dan V. wrote:
What’s the point in asking the question “can I build muscle mass after the age of 50”. What are your alternatives? Not lift? I don’t think so. Enjoy the heft of the weight and how if makes you feel. One thing is for sure if you lift at any age you will improve and if you don’t you will get weeker and feel the effects of your age. So, the bottom line is “just lift”.[/quote]
One of the smartest things Ive read yet. We all have limitations, and age is only one of them.
[quote]peterm533 wrote:
The reality is that I have declined and will continue to do so. Accepting that reality is not the same as giving up. [/quote]
I think I understand the question you are asking and perhaps it is a good topic for another thread. I believe you are asking if physiologically after a certain age can you add muscle.
I do not think there is disagreement that you can take atrophied muscle and convert it to hypertrophied muscle through exercise and diet but can you actually add new muscle cells. I am sure there must be some research out there that addresses that question.
Whether or not you can will not affect my workouts because I enjoy the whole experience. Intellectual curiosity still asks the question.
Perhaps one of the exercise physiologists out there will respond. It has already been answered elsewhere on T-Nation and I misunderstood it. Another thread on the topic might get someones attention because maybe 50+ and Increasing Muscle is not of immediate concern to them.
First post in this part of the forum.
I’m 48 & trained since I was about 18.
My build at the moment is probably better than 90% of the 21 year olds I see in the gym. Not genetically gifted, not huge:I’m satisfied.
I think that it is very very difficult to build new muscle as you get older( not at any given age but on a constantly declining scale inversely proportional to your age) due to hormonal issues as discussed. Reading through the posts, it is apparent that most guys who have had success with body transformations over 50 have had long lay offs and then returned to training. this is muscle memory, not building new tissue.
I can maintain measurements fairly easily, but find that I am more and more prone to carry excess baggage, especially if I deliberately try to increase cals in an effort to gain (a practice which I have now stopped for that reason).
Strength is a differemnt thing to muscle mass, and increases are not directly proportional.
My personal thing is that I love to train. I aim to be in as good nick at 60 as I am now. When 60 comes, I’ll reassess, but if my enthiusiasm is still there I’ll be goal setting for 70.
Gazz
OK so you won’t bump anyone off the Olympia stage…but you can still gain muscle. It’s way better than just sitting around getting old and waiting to die.
I’ve seen OLD ass 50 year olds and some pretty young 80 year olds. Nutrition and exercise seems to be the key to staying young longer. If it’s boosting test and GH naturally, it’s got to be good.
BTW, I’m only 37 and when I did a triathlon last month, a 68 year old guy handed me my ass. He placed like 5th overall out of almost 100 competitors. So don’t believe that when one hits 50 it’s time to take to the bed and give up. No you can’t do everything if you weren’t already doing it, but you can still make improvements.
Good luck with your training.
[quote]Dan V. wrote:
What’s the point in asking the question “can I build muscle mass after the age of 50”. What are your alternatives? Not lift? I don’t think so. Enjoy the heft of the weight and how if makes you feel. One thing is for sure if you lift at any age you will improve and if you don’t you will get weeker and feel the effects of your age. So, the bottom line is “just lift”.[/quote]
I agree with Dan… I’m over 50, work out 6 days a week, just cuz I love the way I feel afterwards… So what if it takes a year to gain an inch or drop a pound, what’s the alternative, feel like crap all the time.
As the original poster of this thread i have to say WOW! The shear number of rsponses, @32, and the amazing number of views ,@2500, indicate to me that this is much more of an interest than I thought it would be!
Maybe just to clarify - I am still working out and will always lift as I like the way it makes me feel. I’m just wanting to add lean muscle mass which may or may not happen from the sound of things. Any supplement suggestions that may help?
Very surprised with the responses and all! Keep it up.
dbushn2
[quote]Bad John wrote:
I turned 51 last saturday. Yes you can gain muscle at our advanced age. Lift heavy, and don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t do something. [/quote]
I’m turning 51 8/17. Goal for my birthday is deadlifting 500. Like you said, lift heavy but make sure you get the rest. I love blowing the youngsters away in the gym.
[quote]dbushn2 wrote:
Any supplement suggestions that may help?
[/quote]
dbushn2,
I don’t have any supplement secrets for you, but here’s what I do:
I start every day ~04:30 with a shake consisting of 12oz skim milk, 4 to 6 ice cubes, a small to medium banana, a small handful of walnuts, a heaping tablespoon of milled flax seed, and 2 scoops of protein powder. I follow that with a multi-vitamin, 2 TRIBEX (I just take these on weekdays), and 4 fish oil capsules (I’ve been using Flameout since Biotest broke that out).
Around 07:00 I have a bowl of some high-fiber cereal with some walnuts, a scoop of protein powder, and 8oz skim milk. I’ll usually have a piece of fruit around 09:00 and a protein bar or a short protein drink (1 scoop in 8oz water) around 10:00 or 10:30.
Lunch consists of meat or fish and a small salad or some cold vegetables. At 15:00 it’s another protein bar or short drink. I usually have a protein drink with 16oz. of water and 2 scoops of protein powder about 17:00.
If it’s a workout night, (I hit the gym Sunday morning, then Monday, Thursday, and Friday evenings) I’ll chug a Power Drive (1 scoop in 8oz. of water) about 18:00 before I leave the office for the gym armed with a pre-mixed Surge to drink on the way home.
My evening meal consists of some kind of meat and vegetables plus 12oz of skim milk. I also cook the next days lunch at the same time.
Before bed, it’s another multi-vitamin, 3 ZMA, and (weekdays) 2 TRIBEX.
Nothing fancy. Using this scheme, I can stay within 4 or 5 pounds of competition weight (220) all year and my mirror tells me that the fat is still receding and the muscles are still growing.
I eat clean most of the time, and keep my protein intake up. I don’t count calories. I watch the scale. If my weight starts to exceed my 5 pound threshold, I back off a little. If I get too light, I eat a little more. I always hit the gym hard.
When this batch of TRIBEX runs out, I may road-test the new Alpha Male.
I know I’ve given you more than you asked for, but I think a lot of people make too much of this. It ain’t rocket science.
I hope this helps.
Rick
[quote]barryjenkins00 wrote:
I’m turning 51 8/17. Goal for my birthday is deadlifting 500. Like you said, lift heavy but make sure you get the rest. I love blowing the youngsters away in the gym.
[/quote]
Barry,
A 500 pound deadlift is an admirable goal at any age. You can do it.
I can feel one in my future too. I’m looking for a 440, near term, but I’m pulling 500 off the low pins for triples now.
Don’t you love the looks you get from the kids? Priceless.
Rick
Just like the Mastercard commercial, Priceless.
[quote]dbushn2 wrote:
I do find the posts here interesting and insightful. However, being 51 I’m real curious about the real ability to gain muscle mass at this age. I’ve been working out with weights for about 6 years regularly and with a trainer and am in pretty good shape but would love to add a little mass to my frame. Not looking to be Mr America but…
I only wish I was aware of this bodybuidling craze when I was in my 20’s!! Anyway, Am looking for any suggestions, including supplements, and please if you feel it’s not possibe, tell me. I will then continue what I’m doing as I am in better shape than I was in my 20’s
dbushn2[/quote]
Check out this eating program - http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=811783
I’ve used it for adding muscle and burning fat. It works great and is fairly easy to follow. You need to log your food intake. Fitday.com is what I use and works well. If you don’t log your food, then it is really hard to determine progress.
If you don’t know what you ate or how much of any nutrient you consumed, then IMHO you are spinning your wheels. All the working out in the world won’t do much without the proper intake of nutrients especially if you don’t know what or how much in a given day. I think this is where people really fall short.
As far as I’m concerned, your eating & supplements are 80% of the process. I’ve seen people work out like maniacs forever with virtually little progess because they eat like shit. Sorry to rant, this is a sensitive topic for me. Anyway, you get my point.
For supplements to add muscle, you should consider the NEW Alpha Male, Creatine, BCAA, ZMA, Flameout, (very helpful for the joints on us older ones)and some sort of protein supplement - Metabolic Drive Complete is a great choice or Low Carb Metabolic Drive depending on how you structure your food intake.
I almost forgot and this is one of the most important - SURGE post workout. If I’m missing something here, anyone feel free to add to this.
I can assure you that if you follow the eating program referenced with the above supplements, you should have no problem putting on some serious muscle over a period of weeks and months. It is possible regardless of the age thing and it sounds like you already have the training portion under control.
Get busy and lift!!
Here’s what I posted earlier on a similar thread:
Age is irrelevant. You can add lean body mass as long as you are manufacturing testosterone. And if you can’t manufacture it, you can buy it legally simply by visiting an Endo and getting a script. The philosophy on T supplementation has changed 180 degrees in the last 5 years. Take advantage of it. My T levels went as low as 70 ng/dl. Now, with androgel supplementation at 7.5 mg per day, I run 600-700. As for sex drive, I could be the oldest guy to ever get banned from the Bada Bing! My nutz may be the size of chick peas, but the old Louisville Slugger is batting 1000.
At 57 I thought I had ‘peaked out’. Now, 4 years later at 61, after 49 years of lifting, I am 15 pounds heavier with 50% less bodyfat. (5’8", 185 pounds, 9% bodyfat). It took some changes in training style and life style but I still gained. Leave the age excuse to the old folks! It doesn’t cut the mustard with this old fart.