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5 x 5 + GPP, Too Much?

I was thinking of starting a basic 5 x 5 cycle, 3 days a week. Just following the program as it is laid out. Do you think doing a day of GPP once a week would be too much, or would I be ok? I want to also get my conditioning up a little bit. By the way, I was going to follow this 5 x 5 routine:

www.eclipsegym.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:
I was thinking of starting a basic 5 x 5 cycle, 3 days a week. Just following the program as it is laid out. Do you think doing a day of GPP once a week would be too much, or would I be ok? I want to also get my conditioning up a little bit. By the way, I was going to follow this 5 x 5 routine:

www.eclipsegym.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57[/quote]

If it was me…i would end up overtrained by adding GPP. I just did this program for 10 weeks and learn the following:

It is awesome. I made huge gains on all my lifts.

DL 385 - 425
BP 225 - 250
Squat 315 - 355

At first I was gaining weight, but I didn’t want to go over 181 cause I have a comp this weekend and didn’t want to be in 198s, so I stopped. Big mistake, after a week or two of not gaining weight, i started feel overtrained and stopped make good progress.

You need eat a lot.
I started at 170lb-173lb so I gained about 10lb, but it could have easily been 15lb. I did not get fat. In fact my bodyfat % went down a little.

Sleep!!! I was torn to shreds by week 8, although not eating enough might have contributed to this. You NEED to sleep at least 8 hours a day. A few time i didn’t get enough sleep (hey it happens) and felt it in the gym the next day.

Don’t over estimate your 5 rep max!! If anything be conservative, especially on bench. If you do over estimate, you will stall. I can almost guarantee it. I under estimated my bench and I still stalled in week 9 and 10.

Don’t be afraid to take 3-7min breaks before your last set.

Hit that last set like your life depended on minus hurting yourself over course.

It might seem easy for the first couple of weeks. Don’t try to out do yourself. Believe me, it gets tough!

I added a few sets of chin-ups and dips on the light day to add a little more balance.

Have fun.

This will depend greatly on your physical abilities, years of training, goals…etc.

Give us a little background on you. Have you ever done max type training before? What specifically are you attemtping to accomplish with GPP? How many consecutive years do you have under your belt?

hey,
With all things in the strength/conditioning world…it depends…

I would say if you split your sessions up properly and its backed up with good nutrition you should be good. Plus, the gpp as long as its not to intense should help with your capacity to handle your weight sessions as long as its not done to intense.

I myself have had better progress when i had a primary goal and maitained my secondary goals but i definately work more than just one attribute throughout a training week.

i say if your doing withinn reason a level of activity and conditioning you expect to be able and cant handle it its more of adapting to it. Sure add the gpp slowly and get used to it ya may feel a bit run down but keep at it and if eating proper resting, youll adjust

Phill

To answer your questions:

I have been doing a Westside type of training off and on for the past year (either WS4SB or a more traditional Westside type of template), with some down time mixed in due to injury and busy work, school, etc. So yes, I have had some experience with ME training. I have been training for about a year and half consistently overall.

I play recreational sports and I realize I am very out of shape. I look ok aesthetically but I want to be in better overall shape. The GPP was going to be added to help me get better overall conditioning for playing rec sports, and to be honest, to be healthier.

I thought maybe just a light GPP day to start with, then see where I was at. For the 5 x 5 I plan on deloading around the 4th or 5th week. I am beginning to learn the value of taking time off when needed and not being foolish.

[quote]gustojack wrote:
This will depend greatly on your physical abilities, years of training, goals…etc.

Give us a little background on you. Have you ever done max type training before? What specifically are you attemtping to accomplish with GPP? How many consecutive years do you have under your belt?[/quote]

Here is how I am setting up my version of the 5 x 5:

Monday (perform in this order):

Bench Press (Work up to 5RM over 5 sets)***

Squat (5 x 5 same weight; 90% of 5RM)

Dynamic Rows (5 x 5 same weight; 90% of 5RM)

Accessory-Low volume triceps and abs

Wednesday (perform in this order):

Standing Military Press (4 x 5 same weight; 90% of 5RM)

Deadlifts (5 x 5 same weight; 90% of 5RM)

Squats (5 x 5 same weight; 15-25% less than Monday)

Pullups (5 x 5)

Accessory-Low volume biceps and abs

Friday

Bench Press (5 x 5 same weight; 90% of 5RM)

Squat (Work up to 5RM over 5 sets)***

Dynamic Rows (Work up to 5RM over 5 sets)***

Dre,
I just got done with 5 weeks of doing 5x5 for my big 3. Monday was squats, Wed was Bench and Friday was Deadlift. All my accessory work was done in the 6-8 and 8-10 range. I was also training 6 days per week, but only 3 days of 5x5 and only one exercise per day in that range.

I only have two pieces of advice. The first is that you must eat. I was rapidly approaching 242 and didn’t want to bump up to the 275’s so I dropped my calories to maintenance, maybe even a bit below, and my recovery went to shit in the course of about 1 week.

Secondly 5x5 deadlifts are brutal. There’s no way around it. My mid back felt pumped all weekend, but also like someone had wailed on it with a softball bat. I would mumble “I’m so beat up, I’m so beat up” all weekend.

Be prepared to drop your squat percentage even lower after DL’s if need be. On a positive note, I came off the program feeling the strongest I ever have in my life.

[quote]Modi wrote:
Dre,
I just got done with 5 weeks of doing 5x5 for my big 3. Monday was squats, Wed was Bench and Friday was Deadlift. All my accessory work was done in the 6-8 and 8-10 range. I was also training 6 days per week, but only 3 days of 5x5 and only one exercise per day in that range.

I only have two pieces of advice. The first is that you must eat. I was rapidly approaching 242 and didn’t want to bump up to the 275’s so I dropped my calories to maintenance, maybe even a bit below, and my recovery went to shit in the course of about 1 week.

Secondly 5x5 deadlifts are brutal. There’s no way around it. My mid back felt pumped all weekend, but also like someone had wailed on it with a softball bat. I would mumble “I’m so beat up, I’m so beat up” all weekend.

Be prepared to drop your squat percentage even lower after DL’s if need be. On a positive note, I came off the program feeling the strongest I ever have in my life.[/quote]

great advice here id add think about putting legs first at least one day.

ill also add you want to get in shape fast!! id do compound edt i have done it and logged it here doing big componds like sqaut and abs, chins and oh press each 15 mins brutal but youll be in crazy shape. add one one or two shorter isolation pr zones nuts man.

Phill

Yeah, I was thinking of changing the order on Monday. Working up to a 5RM on the bench isn’t going to be as draining volume or load wise as 5 x 5 of the same weight on squats. Maybe I can try:

Squat (5 x 5 same weight; 90% of 5RM)

Bench Press (Work up to 5RM over 5 sets)***
Dynamic Rows (5 x 5 same weight; 90% of 5RM)

Accessory-Low volume triceps and abs

Wednesday (perform in this order):

Standing Military Press (4 x 5 same weight; 90% of 5RM)

Deadlifts (5 x 5 same weight; 90% of 5RM)

Squats (5 x 5 same weight; 15-25% less than Monday)

Pullups (5 x 5)

Accessory-Low volume biceps and abs

Friday

Bench Press (5 x 5 same weight; 90% of 5RM)

Squat (Work up to 5RM over 5 sets)***

Dynamic Rows (Work up to 5RM over 5 sets)***

[quote]Phill wrote:
Modi wrote:
Dre,
I just got done with 5 weeks of doing 5x5 for my big 3. Monday was squats, Wed was Bench and Friday was Deadlift. All my accessory work was done in the 6-8 and 8-10 range. I was also training 6 days per week, but only 3 days of 5x5 and only one exercise per day in that range.

I only have two pieces of advice. The first is that you must eat. I was rapidly approaching 242 and didn’t want to bump up to the 275’s so I dropped my calories to maintenance, maybe even a bit below, and my recovery went to shit in the course of about 1 week.

Secondly 5x5 deadlifts are brutal. There’s no way around it. My mid back felt pumped all weekend, but also like someone had wailed on it with a softball bat. I would mumble “I’m so beat up, I’m so beat up” all weekend.

Be prepared to drop your squat percentage even lower after DL’s if need be. On a positive note, I came off the program feeling the strongest I ever have in my life.

great advice here id add think about putting legs first at least one day.

ill also add you want to get in shape fast!! id do compound edt i have done it and logged it here doing big componds like sqaut and abs, chins and oh press each 15 mins brutal but youll be in crazy shape. add one one or two shorter isolation pr zones nuts man.

Phill

[/quote]

I want to add some conditioning next time I do BS 5x5. If you DL > 350, might I suggest that you do 3x5 DL instead of 5x5. It is extremely brutal (I spent 45 min alone on DL).

I got serious results from this program I’ll post later about that anyways.

If you haven’t already please look at this site.

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/index.htm

This is the version I followed.

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:
I was thinking of starting a basic 5 x 5 cycle, 3 days a week. Just following the program as it is laid out. Do you think doing a day of GPP once a week would be too much, or would I be ok? I want to also get my conditioning up a little bit. By the way, I was going to follow this 5 x 5 routine:

www.eclipsegym.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57[/quote]

Dre Cappa the thing you gotta ask yourself is…is it too much for you now? Because if it is, it might not be in 2 months time.

Since reading Louie Simmons work on the Westside site and using the westside principles for my training i have realised that the human body is capable of massive amounts of work.(Simmons said he can do 14 workouts a week)!

However he makes it clear that that kind of GPP can take years to develop. Currently i do 4 main workouts a week and a supplementary one a Saturday. In a few weeks i will add another 20-30 min session on wed(currently a day off).

GPP builds up over time. The only way to find out if you can hanlde the workout you wish to do as well as GPP work is to try it. My guess is you can, it just might hurt for a while!

As soon as i got HIT ideas out of my head and started reading Simmons and Pavel my training has progressed seriously. Increasing the amount of work you can handle in a week is very important and (despite what HIT jedis say) possible. Good luck

If I read that program right, your rest periods (5 sets x 5 min rest x 3 movements) add up to an hour or more each day? How long are these workouts supposed to take?

[quote]frank377 wrote:
If I read that program right, your rest periods (5 sets x 5 min rest x 3 movements) add up to an hour or more each day? How long are these workouts supposed to take?[/quote]

Short initially then they can be as much as 1.5-2 hrs. Double Surge is needed (its how I survived this program).

I have that link bookmarked as well. I have a printed out 5 x 5 version that someone gave me that also says to do 3 x 5 if you pull 2-2.5x bodyweight. I am close to that so I might just start off 3 x 5. I am not going to be an idiot and burn myself out in 2 weeks or get hurt. This first cycle I am going to be very conservative, then adjust accordingly.

For the rest times, I am going to try to stay consistent. One article said go by how you feel between sets, others said pick a consistent time and stick with it in order to measure your progress better. I am going to do that.

[quote]themonthofjun wrote:
If you haven’t already please look at this site.

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/index.htm

This is the version I followed.[/quote]

“A Good GPP session works great as an active recovery”

I haven’t done westside, just an average working gym goer, but in researching you guys secret cryptic codes of westside,5by5, and gpp, I found that quote from CW, which looks like it means your good to go with your programming.