T Nation

5 Up, 3 Back


Hi. I just want to be sure.

For example my start TM is 300, so it should be like this:

300 - START TM / Cycle 1
310 - Up 1
320 - Up 2
330 - Up 3
340 - Up 4
350 - Up 5 / Cycle 6
320 - Back 3
330 - Up 1
370 - Up 5 / Cycle 12

So this is how it should look like? If yes, then it fits perfectly to 6 week cycles rule which is written in book.



You pick your TM (90% of your current 1RM, tested or estimated) and use that for your first cycle. For the second cycle, you add NO MORE than 5lbs to cycle 2's TMs for the presses and NO MORE than 10lbs to TMs for the squats and deads (no more means you can add less if you prefer to progress slower). You keep doing this - adding weight to the next cycle's TM - until you stall in one of the lifts. Then you reset that lift's TM 10 90% but keep progressing the other lifts.

The difference to what you lined out is that there is no fixed point in time when you reset; you do it when it becomes necessary, and you do it one lift at a time.


Actually what he talked about is also one recomendation for assured progress...


Do 5 cycles. Go back 3.

This is only after you milk the program. There was another question on this forum about this probably 2 pages ago. But it's very simple: you do 5, then back up. Then keep doing that.


nighthawkz you don't understand question.

Thank you Jim.


Not trying to speak for Jim, but I think what he means by the "milk of the program" is that in his 5/3 Periodization article he actually provides a method of how to progress from cycle to cycle within the 5/3 Periodization as well. There's a little more to it than just 5 forward / 3 back. The full article is on his site.


I know this answer was off-topic but I thought it was perfect. I still think this is the best way for most people to run 5/3/1. The original way. There's no sense in fancying up a simple progression scheme.


I based on this when I writting this topic: http://www.jimwendler.com/2014/02/the-training-max-what-you-need-to-know/

Anyway I read it once again and I get it.


No, that's not the article I'm referring to. You have to join his main site to get the article I believe, but it's well worth it.


I don't answer to your post Jaynick, I said what I read before I wrote this topic.

Thanks for all replies.


Jim when you say "after you milk the program" are you referring to once you truly miss reps consistently then you start auto regulating and use 5 forward 3 back programming? Otherwise you suggest just using the deload week only as perscribed in the books and keep plugging along?


It simply means you run it until you start fucking up. Preferably before. This is ONLY if the lifter has at least 90% compliance to all 10 weak point areas (diet, etc). I see way too many people trying to get stronger LIFTING but ignore the other aspects of training.

We need more athletes leading the way. IGNORING OTHER AREAS WILL FLUNK YOUR TRAINING. There are a lot of people who need to understand if you are flunking other "subjects", you get thrown out of "school".

Diet/recovery/mobility, etc.