5 Forward, 3 Back?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Jim Wendler 5/3/1 Coaching
1

Wanted to see if I read this correctly. Can’t seem to find the thread I saw it in. But, is the idea to run 5 cycles & than go back to the 3rd cycle numbers & start another 5 cycle?

If I read this wrong, feel free to tell me to shove it.

2

Back to the 2nd cycle numbers. 3 back, not back to the 3rd

So theoretical:

100 (start)
110 (1 forward)
120
130
140
150 (5 forward)

120 (3 back)
130 (1 forward)
140
150
160
170 (5 forward)

140 (3 back)
150
…
…

I suppose you could also reset at 140, 160, etc… Restting every 5th cycle, instead of going forward 5 cycles

Or you could even go 3 forward, 2 back. It doesn’t really matter, its just a system to prolong how many cycles you go without stalling.

3

If you are making progress on your lifts, why would you want to do a forced reset? It seems like if things are working for you, the best strategy would be to keep on doing what you are doing, and wait until you stall to reset.

4

Appreciate the input fellas.

5

This was asked recently and Jim answered.

6

[quote]Ronan wrote:
Wanted to see if I read this correctly. Can’t seem to find the thread I saw it in. But, is the idea to run 5 cycles & than go back to the 3rd cycle numbers & start another 5 cycle?

If I read this wrong, feel free to tell me to shove it.[/quote]

Yes. That is the basic premise. With the Jokers, PR sets and volume work, there is no need to be in any rush with your TM. In fact, as Kevin Deweese wrote in his article, if you are consistent with the program over a short period of time (a year) you will quickly realize how important the TM is and also how little it has to do with your 1RM.

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7

Appreciate it, Jim.

8

So, is going 5 cycles forward and then going back to 3rd cycle TM a standard protocol that one should do regardless of amount of reps they can get/bar speed? or should only do when cant get 5 strong reps on 5/3/1 week/bar speed slows etc per lift that needs it?

I’m wondering because im on my first leader cycle (which is my 6th cycle, i have increased TM 6 times) and just finished first 3 weeks on Cycle 1 of leader, and wondering if i should just decrease TM back 3 instead of increasing TM for second 3 weeks of first cycle for lifts that need it?

9

We do not use 5/3 anymore - it was a good solution but temporary. Now we just program 3 cycles and use the 7th week protocol to help determine the correct TM. This will be in the new book and explained thoroughly.

If one does this, you will never, ever use too high of a TM. After doing this for 8 years, I can safely say that in regards to training the main lift, the vast majority of people use too high of a TM. Somehow they think training is testing. I don’t get it and I never will.

1 Like
10

Okay, so im guessing (?) you would still recommend lowering TM instead of raising it for the 2nd 3 weeks of 6 wk cycle if (while doing 5s PRO for leader cycles 1-2)

  1. The last set of 5 on 5/3/1 week is slow to the point where it feels like no more than 5 quality reps can be done
  2. The FSL 5x10 supplemental has a couple sets where i cant get all 10?
    This is only happening with press & bench. Press is worse.

If decrease, how much? Im only wondering because this is feeling like testing and not training and i dont wanna keep shooting my foot all up until end of cycle when perhaps i can fix it now by decreasing TM?

Sorry if these questions seem stupid or repetitive. I just want to be ENTIRELY clear before changing TMs and beginning second half of 6 wk cycle.

Thanks