T Nation

5 Forward/3 Back Rule with 6-Week Cycles


#1

The answer is probably obvious as hell, but I wanted to make sure.

If I am incorporating the 5/3 rule with the numbers I am putting up each cycle, and I do the six week cycles Jim talks about in Beyond 5/3/1, then I would go for 5 six week cycles before going back to the third cycle's weights and starting over again, right? Or would I use each time I increase the weights as the cycles to base this rule off of? So one of the six week cycles counts as two, the next as four, then half way through the third cycle is five, and I taper the weight back. I do not recall seeing any mention of this in Beyond, so forgive me if it is outlined somewhere else and I overlooked it.


#2

It is the second way you mentioned.

Cycle 1:
5
3
5/3/1
5 (increase)
3
5/3/1
Deload

Cycle 2:
5
3
5/3/1
5 (increase)
3
5/3/1
deload

Cycle 3:
5
3
5/3/1
deload

then go back 3.


#3

Okay cool, thank you so much


#4

So you would start back with cycle 2 weights? Thanks.


#5

I was under the assumption that “5 forward” would take six, [3 week] cycles to complete.

Cycle 1 (base)
Cycle 2 (1st forward/increase)

Deload

Cycle 3 (2nd forward/increase)
Cycle 4 (3rd forward/increase)

Deload

Cycle 5 (4th forward/increase)
Cycle 6 (5th forward/increase)

Deload

Then cycle 3 becomes your “base” for the next onslaught of cycles?
I could be wrong, but that’s the way I’ve understood it…


#6

Using the squat or deadlift, for example:

Cycle/TM

1 - 300
2 - 310
3 - 320
4 - 330
5 - 340
6 - 320
7 - 330
8 - 340
9 - 350
10 - 360
11 - 340

So you start at 300 as your TM. You do 5 cycles. You’ve completed 5 cycles and ended with a TM of 340. So now you go back 3 cycles. Since 340 was your last cycle, you go back 3. In other words (1)340 to (2)330 to (3)320. Thus going back 3 cycles would mean 320.

Don’t make this any more complicated than it has to be.


#7

[quote]Roran wrote:
It is the second way you mentioned.

Cycle 1:
5
3
5/3/1
5 (increase)
3
5/3/1
Deload

Cycle 2:
5
3
5/3/1
5 (increase)
3
5/3/1
deload

Cycle 3:
5
3
5/3/1
deload

then go back 3.
[/quote]

you are misunderstanding the concept of 6 week cycles, or writing it wrong. each time you get to the 5’s week, the TM is increased. what you wrote above only increases every 6 weeks, it should be every three. that “rule” of increasing the TM never changed when 6 week cycles were suggested, the Deload simply occurs every 6 weeks (two cycles) instead of every 3 weeks (one cycle) for most people.


#8

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Using the squat or deadlift, for example:

Cycle/TM

1 - 300
2 - 310
3 - 320
4 - 330
5 - 340
6 - 320
7 - 330
8 - 340
9 - 350
10 - 360
11 - 340

So you start at 300 as your TM. You do 5 cycles. You’ve completed 5 cycles and ended with a TM of 340. So now you go back 3 cycles. Since 340 was your last cycle, you go back 3. In other words (1)340 to (2)330 to (3)320. Thus going back 3 cycles would mean 320.

Don’t make this any more complicated than it has to be.[/quote]
Thank you for posting this. I am happy to see the official answer, as I was under the impression that it would take 6 cycles. Now I can use the method as intended.