T Nation

5/3/1 Twice a Day?


#1

Hi all,

It's winter here and that means its universal 'time to get fucking enormous for summer' time. I've been thinking about the plan, and since I essentially get all day to rest, eat and recover, a mate and I are looking into 5/3/1 twice a day, ie. squat in the AM, overhead press that night, then dead lift/bench. Looking at 2 days on, 1 day for steady state cardio and active recovery.

So anyway, I'm looking for your opinions on how you guys would structure it? We're both experienced lifters and keen as mustard. I've tried searching but all results are 531 twice a week.

Thanks guys!


#2

If you want to train 2x/day, train 2x/day and write a suitable program for that goal that gives you sufficient recovery.

Why would you take a program whose current parameters are designed for 4x/week training?

One of the ideas behind jumping into higher frequency training is to take the volume you wish to hit in a given week, keep it the same or maybe boost it just a tad, and then divvy it up over the week. What you're talking about is a recipe for running your progress into the ground.


#3

If you are looking to frequently, especially for strength gains, Just go to JimWendler.com, there is a pop-up that gives you a link for the Frequency Project. It has you training 12 days out of 14.

For max growth you could just do the Boring but Big template. REST is just as important as training when it comes to growth. If you want to double the amount of training in the program, which cuts deeply into the amount of rest, you might not get the results you are after.

Consistently training twice a day isnt really something you just jump into normally, especially if you are going to be training balls out each session. Even elite athletes that do train twice a day have built up to it over the years, are probably on drugs, and it is there life and job to do so.

Or as the Hodge Twins would say... You go out there and do whatever the FUUCCCKKKKK you wanna do. The ONLY way to know anything for sure is to try it on yourself and see what happens.


#4

Thanks gentlemen. I'll check out the frequency project today and do some reading.

Aside from that, what sort of programming would you guys use if you were gonna do two-a-days?


#5

If you're going to split up a full routine like you said and squat in the AM and bench or press in the PM I dont see the problem. I do it fairly regularly. Rest heaps and eat heaps and you'll be sweet. Listen to your body and if the feedback is you're not recovering, either look at your recovery methods or have some days off. Squat 5/3/1 plus some volume squats or other legs morning, bench 5/3/1 plus assistance evening sounds good to me. Personally I think it's a good way to get some extra work done if you can recover from it. If you're not managing well just stop doing it.


#6

Lower in AM, upper in PM, every other day.

2 on 1 off sounds like a recipe for detraining as you'll be training muscles while they're still recovering.

Lastly, realize that no matter how hard/frequently you train the body will still only produce a limited amount of growth per month.

If you're looking to get big I recommend Googling the BBB 3 month Challenge.


#7

you guys should maybe check out the growth Surge project here on this site. Also the super-accumulation program by charles poliquin might be fun to look into as well for your situation. Also on this site.


#8

...on second thought. Rereading OP, I've got a hunch you are not experienced enough to have a go at 2 a days OR you are not doing it for the right reason.


#9

Ouch man, that hurts.

Thanks for everyone's replies. I'll do some reading/learning and see how things go


#10

What Lonnie & jsk said makes perfect sense. Take a hard look at the boaring but bit template. It realy does work well your strength gains will be insane. I used it and many of my friends have it really works well for size/strength but you gotta eat 2... I blew out my shoulder while doing that program Im not blaming the program but to anyone traveling down the BBB 5/3/1 road I would recomend these things.
1) Make sure form is solid
2) Spend more time warming up & do rotator cuff work
3) Get more back & rear delt work in during assistance work
4) Never skip the deload week its there for a reason
5) Dont fuck with the program the dude is a expert so just do it as its written & dont be a tard

Also its a heavy taxing program I dont think people realize how hard it is till they do it. Personally I like doing it Sept-Jan I wouldnt want to run that program 360 unless I was a PL or making money for being strong


#11

You can not over state that enough!


#12

2/day on 5/3/1

Main lift in the AM- conditioning right after

Assistance work in the PM (Boring But Big)

Done either 3/week or 4/week. Depending on your conditioning/recovery level.