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5/3/1: The Best Loading Phase

Precisely as i’ve asked in the title, would 5/3/1 be the best approach to a loading phase? I typically keep my volume pretty high, typically 3-5 sets of 10-12 reps, of about 5-8 lifts/workout… anyhow, wanted to try a lower volume, higher “intensity” scheme for a couple weeks, or at least rotate it in, and see if i can get any results. progress not stalled, just an ever-curious, always-learning kind’ve kid.

thanks in advance

-805

not being a jerk, but i think you would get better responses in the powerlifting or over 35 forums. i cant see many guys in the bodybuilding forum doing Jim Wendler’s “5/3/1: The Simplest and Most Effective Training System to Increase Raw Strength”

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
i cant see many guys in the bodybuilding forum doing Jim Wendler’s “5/3/1: The Simplest and Most Effective Training System to Increase Raw Strength”[/quote]

That’s to bad because most of them could learn a thing or two about themselves while strength training.

To the O.P.
If you have been running a high volume program for a while, it is going to take several cycles before you really adapt to the work. Based on following your posts I would guess you would be ‘firing on all cylinders’ at the start of your third cycle. I love % based programs and always get good results from them.

This might depend on how you structure the assistance lifts. The high intensity part of 5/3/1 is just for the 1 lift you start each workout with. Also some of the assistance templates are compound lifts for 5 sets of 10 so yes you are doing less than 5-8 lifts but how does that workload compare to what your doing now?

The best program is the one you follow consistently.

As mentionned, 2 weeks is not the way to do it. Tryit for 6 months.

I am now a really big fan of % bases program, as bluecollar mentioned.

Coming from the mouth of 2 of my IRL friends who have benched 500,squatted 700+, and deadlifted in the 6-700 range;1 of which has set several powerlifting records in the 165 weight class and not my own opinion:

If you want a bodybuilding program, go on a bodybuilding program.

If you want a strength program, go on a strength program.

Don’t try and “****” around to get the best of both, because it won’t work or give sub par results compared to what you could have had.

I think the 5/3/1 program is great. You will gain strength in the basics and have the freedom to use higher reps in your assistanse lifts. Give it a try and it will at least be a learning experience and possibly some gains in strength and size. If I had to say the best thing you can do for yourself in your quest for a bigger , stronger self is being able to try new training methods and being able to access your progress. Good ole fashion trial and error. Do not limit yourself to this for size and this for strength because you might find out that the process is just not that easy. At times you might respond to higher reps and then for lower reps at different times and for different bodyparts. 5/3/1, as well as CT’s programs are already tried and thought out programs that all you have to do is commit yourself and “Just do it”.

What are your goals? Strength, body building? Since it’s in the bb forum im assuming it’s for body building.

There’s a link for how to use 531 for body building. Or if you kno what your weakness are already, just base accessories on that.

I’ve been doing 531 for a year now, still getting results

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Coming from the mouth of 2 of my IRL friends who have benched 500,squatted 700+, and deadlifted in the 6-700 range;1 of which has set several powerlifting records in the 165 weight class and not my own opinion:

If you want a bodybuilding program, go on a bodybuilding program.

If you want a strength program, go on a strength program.

Don’t try and “****” around to get the best of both, because it won’t work or give sub par results compared to what you could have had.[/quote]
OK but 5/3/1 isn’t just a ‘strength program’… it’s deadlift, squat, bench press, overhead press, with specific rep ranges through weeks 1-4. The rest is up to you.

I don’t need a new consistent program. i’ve been following Defranco’s WSBB for about 2 years, and have done fairly well. @ 190lbs, 20+ pull-ups, 75+ pushups, squat 315 for 10+ for 3 work sets, DL is lagging at 315x9 for 2 work sets, DB neutral bench 95’sx9 for 2 work sets. I’ve got my program. I’m not trying to move away from WSBB, i prefer it, however i don’t see how i would be negatively affect by introducing fewer reps, at larger load %'s for a few weeks every now and then. i’ll explain, (yes it’s modified because i’ve reached a point where i require more volume)

M:
Neutral grip pullup BWx12, BWx12, Bw+25lbsx10 for 3 sets, BWx25x10 for 10 upper portion reps
DB row 100lbs x 10 for 4 sets, 120x6 for 1 set
supersetted with face pulls, 80x12, 85x12, 90x12
DB bench 75x12, 80x12, 85x12, 90x9, 95xfailure
supersetted with wide-grip lat pulldown 165x12, 180x12, 195x10, 195x10
close grip row 180x12, 195x10, 210x10, 210x10
supersetted with pulley flys 70x12 for 3 sets
close grip face pulls, 120x10 for 3 sets
superetted with supinated BB row, 185x0 for 3 sets

That is a basic “upper body” day, done 2 times a week, however, neutrals are traded for wide/regular grips, and vice versa.

legs:
lying ham curls, 10x4 + 20x1 partial reps
squat 135x12, 225x12, 275x12 for 3 sets, 315x9, 315xfailure
Deadlift 225x12, 275x9 for 2 sets, 315x6 for 2 sets
leg press 3x24
leg ext 4x12
calf raises 3x24

/excessive information haha

it’s a hybrid (maybe incorrectly formulated) of Defranco and John Meadows’ programs…

Tues:
depth jumps/box jumps 6x4
calf raises 3x24
lunges/step ups/bulg split squats 3x12/leg
front squat 12,12,10,10,10
leg press 3x24
DB deadlift 2x20

Thurs:
pullups BWx12 for 2, BW+25x10 for 3 sets, 10x1 partial reps
Meadows rows 12,12,10,10,10
supersetted with reverse DB flys 12x3
DB bench (same as before)
supersetted with close grip pulldown (same scheme)
wide grip rows (same scheme)
supersetted with pulley flyes (same scheme)
decline bench 10x4

Fri: legs as listed above, basically what Meadows outlines in his most recent article.

you can absolutely use 5/3/1 for bodybuilding. All you need to do to be doing 5/3/1 is to use the percentages as progression on the 4 main barbell lifts. You can do whatever assistance work you like. If that means ten zillion sets of curls or whatever have at it.

That’s the great thing about 5/3/1: it has built in progression for the 4 main lifts, everything else is entirely your preference.

It’s all in the book, not that anyone ever reads it.

I don’t get your ME pressing work, are you using DB benches twice a week as that?

WS4SB and 5/3/1 are my favorite programs. I switched from WS4SB because I wanted more focus on the overhead press, which 5/3/1 gave. Why don’t you try 5/3/1 for a few months? I get the main lifts in whenever I want to during the week, but still have flexibility to do things like Meadows arm workouts and full back sessions.

[quote]illadelphia91 wrote:
What are your goals? Strength, body building? Since it’s in the bb forum im assuming it’s for body building.

There’s a link for how to use 531 for body building. Or if you kno what your weakness are already, just base accessories on that.

I’ve been doing 531 for a year now, still getting results[/quote]

great template, give it a try

5.3.1 is designed to be trained over a year or longer lol.

Imo a better thing to do would be to use programing to work out how many reps of x weight you need to hit a one rm and build up to it oer a few weeks. for example the last 3 weeks of Ed Coans bench cycle.

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Coming from the mouth of 2 of my IRL friends who have benched 500,squatted 700+, and deadlifted in the 6-700 range;1 of which has set several powerlifting records in the 165 weight class and not my own opinion:

If you want a bodybuilding program, go on a bodybuilding program.

If you want a strength program, go on a strength program.

Don’t try and “****” around to get the best of both, because it won’t work or give sub par results compared to what you could have had.[/quote]

HA! listen to your own advice fucking peach cakes.

Im starting this next week, tryin to get the four main lifts up but adding in regular bbing accessory work. Im gonna give it a lot of time, plan to go through with it till christmas, evaluate my progress, and continue on if i think thats best.

At the end of the day everyone responds differently to different programs so its a matter of trial and error and finding out what works best for you!

Just curious and I am sure it varies person by person but for those on 5/3/1, how often do you guys switch the accessory movements i.e. every cycle, every other cycle, etc.?

[quote]Gup wrote:
Just curious and I am sure it varies person by person but for those on 5/3/1, how often do you guys switch the accessory movements i.e. every cycle, every other cycle, etc.?[/quote]

If I remember correctly, the books says to stick with an accessory movement for at least two cycles.

[quote]Gup wrote:
Just curious and I am sure it varies person by person but for those on 5/3/1, how often do you guys switch the accessory movements i.e. every cycle, every other cycle, etc.?[/quote]

Am constantly tweaking things and adjusting accessory volume depending on how I feel that day/what time I get to the gym etc. As long as the main lifts are going up their is room for massive flexibility with the program