5/3/1 Set-Ups or 4 Days in General

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

Hello I just had a random inquiry that I wanted to see how everyone else feels about.

First of all, I do not run 5/3/1, I pretty much run ED COAN’S 4 day training approach.

One thing I know about the 5/3/1 program is that the basic setup is this:

Mon - Squat
Wed - Bench
Fri - DL
Sat - Press

Question: Why does this program and many others like it basically have you do PRESSING DAYS (shoulder emphasized work) the day after DEADLIFTING DAYS (back emphasized work).

You use an immense amount of traps on Deadlifting/Back days in literally every exercise. My traps feel sore and stiff for days after the workout, and any kind of pressing will also suffer due to fatigued lats,traps,rear delts,etc etc.

Yet, in a lot of these plans, you do Pressing and shoulder work(which uses tons of back stability, can use lots & LOTS of traps, and you usually work on rear delts that day too) the day after Deadlifting/Back.

I feel like not only does this hinder your performance, but it also makes you injury prone, and also doesn’t really give your shoulders/traps/rear delts etc. enough rest before you are hitting them again.

Personally , I do this( please remember I don’t use 5/3/1, but I also have a 4 day approach that is similar).

Mon - Press
Wed - Squat
Fri - Bench
Sat - Deadlift

Yes, I know it may seem like such a ‘minor thing’ to most people; but why retrain a muscle group the next day or make it harder on yourself instead of letting it rest just another 24 hours or so to be fresher, and have less chance of injury, and stronger?

2

You have it backwards, my friend. The most common example I’ve seen for four-day-a-week 5/3/1 is this:

Monday - Military Press
Tuesday - Deadlift
Thursday - Bench Press
Friday - Squat

I’ve never seen one written the way you described, with pressing being done after deadlifting.

3

I quote…

"Wendler’s 5/3/1 Core Components

4 to 5+ Week Mesocycle. A mesocycle of Wendler’s 5/3/1 lasts 4 weeks if you train 4 days per week, and 5+ weeks if you train 3 days per week. If you workout three times per week (Monday-Wednesday-Friday), you will rotate between 4 core workouts. If you workout 4 days per week, you will hit each workout once a week on the same training day.
4 Core Workouts. Wendler’s 5/3/1 consists of 4 core workouts:
Workout A. Squat and assistance work.

Workout B. Bench Press and assistance work.

Workout C. Deadlift and assistance work.

Workout D. Overhead Press and assistance work. "

This is how I see it everywhere. Everybody does Squat->Bench->DL->Press, so I’m not really sure what you’re talking about. Even so, this is aside from the point.

REGARDLESS - my point still remains almost the SAME in the way YOU wrote it.

You still have Military Press and Deadlift back to back.

4

Why does it matter? Don’t be a pussy and just lift. Scale back on the military press if your traps and back are that sore. Usually people take a day in between EACH day. So you don’t have to press the day after you deadlift. You can take a day off

CS

5

lol wtf? I don’t even need to worry about scaling back or whatever because my days are split regardless.

It doesn’t have to do with the soreness or anything like that in my case.

It has to do with leaving time for more growth and replenishment on the same muscle group.

Mon - Press (Shoulder/Bi emphasis)

Wed - Squat (Leg emphasis)

Fri - Bench (Chest/Tri emphasis)

Sat - Deadlift (Back emphasis)

There’s no difference except you have a day to rest between pressing and deadlifting. :o

6

In the second edition on page 52 it is day one Military Press , day 2 dead lift, day 3 Bench, and day 4 squat. Jim normally has a day of rest inbetween the first 2 days and the next 2 days of training.

Bryan

7

Ever heard the phrase “to mayor in the minors”.

Point being: just set it up the way you like.

8

Yeah, I know the phrase to Major in the Minors. That’s why I was directly talking about in the last paragraph I wrote basically when I was saying I know it’s such a minor thing,etc etc.

Yeah, that’s why I set it up the way I set my program up.

This thread was not about getting an answer for myself, I already know my answer. I wanted other’s opinions on why they choose their programming that way.

9

So, in other words, there really isn’t a point to the thread.

10

I like your split thats how guys like Jim Wendler or Louie Simmons Ed Coan etc get where they are at they learn what works for them and do it. Nothing wrong with being creative thats one of the reason I love training its like a constant science experiment to see how strong and big you can get!

11

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
So, in other words, there really isn’t a point to the thread.[/quote]

hahaha it DOES seem that way.

This is such a weird thing to ask.

If you REALLY need an answer, though, perhap many of the people who use 5/3/1 are more concerned with increasing their total on the big three than on the press. I press on the day after I deadlift and I don’t really feel that my deadlifting holds back my pressing or whatever. This is so far from being an important thing. My upper back is usually a little sore, but I rumble roll it and it’s fine by the time I start to press.

12

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
I quote…

"Wendler’s 5/3/1 Core Components

4 to 5+ Week Mesocycle. A mesocycle of Wendler’s 5/3/1 lasts 4 weeks if you train 4 days per week, and 5+ weeks if you train 3 days per week. If you workout three times per week (Monday-Wednesday-Friday), you will rotate between 4 core workouts. If you workout 4 days per week, you will hit each workout once a week on the same training day.
4 Core Workouts. Wendler’s 5/3/1 consists of 4 core workouts:
Workout A. Squat and assistance work.

Workout B. Bench Press and assistance work.

Workout C. Deadlift and assistance work.

Workout D. Overhead Press and assistance work. "

This is how I see it everywhere. Everybody does Squat->Bench->DL->Press, so I’m not really sure what you’re talking about. Even so, this is aside from the point.

REGARDLESS - my point still remains almost the SAME in the way YOU wrote it.

You still have Military Press and Deadlift back to back.

[/quote]

No, you’re still wrong. I don’t know what else to say except that you definitely aren’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, lol.

13

Ok so you’re telling me that Wendler’s plan really looks like this for example? :

Friday - Bench
Saturday - Squat

Monday - Press

Wednesday - Deadlift

If so, I never knew that and keep hearing/seeing people do it differently. They usually do Squat,rest,Bench,rest,Deadlift,Press,rest everytime I see it.

14

Also, I don’t see how you can call me unintelligent with a quote I pulled out. It’s not as if I wrote it, that’s exactly what it says. lol but ok.

15

Well has anyone even read Jim Wendlers book? I got the ebook and he gives a few different examples of splits and says you can split how you like. The main thing with 5/3/1 is how you go about the main lift and the progression and the main point of the whole program is staying simple.

16

[quote]Caltene wrote:
You have it backwards, my friend. The most common example I’ve seen for four-day-a-week 5/3/1 is this:

Monday - Military Press
Tuesday - Deadlift
Thursday - Bench Press
Friday - Squat
[/quote]
Thats exactly how I have it set up.

17

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Also, I don’t see how you can call me unintelligent with a quote I pulled out. It’s not as if I wrote it, that’s exactly what it says. lol but ok.[/quote]

But you didn’t say where the quote came from, not from Wendler I’m sure.
Many out there say they are doing 5/3/1 but they’ve messed about with it or not gone to the original source (victim of ‘Chinese Whispers’)

18

I did-

monday- squat

tuesday- bench

Wednesday- off

thursday- deadlift

friday- off

saturday- press

worked out fine.

19

^That looks great!!! That’s a good setup and it’s cohesive with exactly what I was talking about =p

20

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
lol wtf? I don’t even need to worry about scaling back or whatever because my days are split regardless.

It doesn’t have to do with the soreness or anything like that in my case.

It has to do with leaving time for more growth and replenishment on the same muscle group.

Mon - Press (Shoulder/Bi emphasis)

Wed - Squat (Leg emphasis)

Fri - Bench (Chest/Tri emphasis)

Sat - Deadlift (Back emphasis)

There’s no difference except you have a day to rest between pressing and deadlifting. :o[/quote]

This is wrong. You are thinking of this like a bodybuilder and not a powerlifter. The actual “emphasis” is

OHP (upper body emphasis)
Squat (lower body emphasis)
Bench (upper body emphasis)
deadlift (lower body emphasis)

upper back work is done on OHP/Bench days, leg and lower back is squat/deadlift days.

You are building the movements, not building muscle groups. Different way of thinking.