5/3/1 Reloaded, 2 Day Split

[quote]Hardrock123 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Good workout, I envy your squat :slight_smile:

If you are dead set on doing two main movements in one session, you would be wise to reduce the assistence.

Something like this is better:

Day1:
squat: 531.
bench: 531.
a row variation: 3-5 x 10.

Day2:
press: 531.
deads: 531.
chins: a total of 30-50reps.

Do this everytime, but if you have more energy you could add in one or two small movements like rear raises and curls or sit ups and back raises etc. Thats basickly what I do.[/quote]

Thanks for the help.

I was thinking of throwing in glute-ham raises as well, what do you think? Or possibly kettlebell swings. Just some kind of lower body assistance.

Squat/bench
Kroc rows 1-2 warm up sets of 10 then all out set
GHR 3x5
weighted abs 5x10

Deadlift/press
Chinups 10x5
GHR 3x5
Hanging leg raises 5x10

Also, on this two day split, do you take a deload week?
[/quote]

Looks good, besides upperback/lats the posterior chain and abs are probably among the most important muscle groups to work besides the main lifts. Remember legs are hit hard with conventional deads and squats and chest/delts/triceps are hit hard with the bench and press. Ergo the muscles that are hit less with the main movements should get priority when choosing assistance excercises.

Also if you do for instance bench 531 and press 3-5 x 10 in one session, then you should probably do two upperback/lats movements to balance out the pressing. I know many of the templates in the book and articles dont say this, but from a injury-preventive perspective it is very important to remember. Balance is everything.

When it comes to deloads on a 2 times a week template, you should only take one if you really need it, ergo feel free to skip it if you feel fresh. I have run 3 cycles without a deload and gets stronger every cycle so far.

Hope that was at any help.

Yeah, as Florelius said, I find performing chin ups or light rows between all pressing sets helps balance things nicely. Especially if you have glass shoulders like me!

17/05/2012

Weight: 75kg

Deadlift 5/3/1.
42.5kg, 5
52.5kg, 5
62.5kg, 3

77.5kg, 5
87.5kg, 3
97.5kg, 12 PR

Press 5/3/1.
22.5kg, 5
27.5kg, 5
32.5kg, 3

40kg, 5
45kg, 3
50kg, 8 PR

Chin-ups, 4x5 (supersetted with press)

GHR, 3x5

Weighted situps, 5x10 8kg

Really happy with both the main lifts. Also, with less assisatance I have a lot more energy. Meant to do more chin-ups but was excited about last set of press and forgot!

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Hardrock123 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Good workout, I envy your squat :slight_smile:

If you are dead set on doing two main movements in one session, you would be wise to reduce the assistence.

Something like this is better:

Day1:
squat: 531.
bench: 531.
a row variation: 3-5 x 10.

Day2:
press: 531.
deads: 531.
chins: a total of 30-50reps.

Do this everytime, but if you have more energy you could add in one or two small movements like rear raises and curls or sit ups and back raises etc. Thats basickly what I do.[/quote]

Thanks for the help.

I was thinking of throwing in glute-ham raises as well, what do you think? Or possibly kettlebell swings. Just some kind of lower body assistance.

Squat/bench
Kroc rows 1-2 warm up sets of 10 then all out set
GHR 3x5
weighted abs 5x10

Deadlift/press
Chinups 10x5
GHR 3x5
Hanging leg raises 5x10

Also, on this two day split, do you take a deload week?
[/quote]

Looks good, besides upperback/lats the posterior chain and abs are probably among the most important muscle groups to work besides the main lifts. Remember legs are hit hard with conventional deads and squats and chest/delts/triceps are hit hard with the bench and press. Ergo the muscles that are hit less with the main movements should get priority when choosing assistance excercises.

Also if you do for instance bench 531 and press 3-5 x 10 in one session, then you should probably do two upperback/lats movements to balance out the pressing. I know many of the templates in the book and articles dont say this, but from a injury-preventive perspective it is very important to remember. Balance is everything.

When it comes to deloads on a 2 times a week template, you should only take one if you really need it, ergo feel free to skip it if you feel fresh. I have run 3 cycles without a deload and gets stronger every cycle so far.

Hope that was at any help.[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback. Think I will just plow on without a deload!

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:
Yeah, as Florelius said, I find performing chin ups or light rows between all pressing sets helps balance things nicely. Especially if you have glass shoulders like me![/quote]

Cheers. Did this today, and it felt good. Didn’t seem to affect the press.

great lifting man :slight_smile:

8 x 50kg in press and 12 x 97.5kg are very good, I am envious :wink:

21/05/2012

Weight: 73.9kg

Squat 5/3/1.
45kg, 5
55kg, 5
67.5kg, 3

72.5kg, 5
82.5,kg 5
95kg, 12 PR

Bench 5/3/1.
32.5kg, 5
40kg, 5
47.5kg, 3

50kg, 5
57.5kg, 5
65kg, 12 PR

Kroc rows, 2x10 warm-up, 20kg, 1x23, 30kg

GHR, 3x5

Weighted situps on lat pull-down machine, 3x10, 9kg

You beat me with one rep, 1-0 to you.

24/05/2012

Weight: 75.4kg

Deadlift 5/3/1.
45kg, 5
55kg, 5
65kg, 3

70kg, 5
82.5kg, 5
92.5kg, 20 (REP) PR

Press 5/3/1.
22.5kg, 5
27.5kg, 5
32.5kg, 3

35kg, 5
42.5kg, 5
47.5kg, 7 (!)

Wide(ish)-grip chinups 10x5 (supersetted between Press, GHR and abs)

GHR 3x5

Sit up circuit; sprinters, v-ups, toe touches, hip thrusts, 2x10 each

Really happy with deadlift, but I don’t know what happened to my press? I did 50kg for 8 reps last week, and couldn’t get anymore than 7 today.

I was supersetting chinups in between sets so this may have affected it? Although I have done that before with no problems, and have read Wendler recommending it multiple times.

Next press workout I will do the press first, and won’t superset, to see if it was fatigue from the deadlifts or chinups that affected it.

Anyone have any input as to why press was tough this time around?

Thanks.

[quote]florelius wrote:
You beat me with one rep, 1-0 to you.

[/quote]

That was a close one!

Do you go all out every session, or do you save a few reps and go all out on specific sessions? If so, how do you decide when your going to go for it, and when your going to hold back?

Cheers.

[quote]Hardrock123 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
You beat me with one rep, 1-0 to you.

[/quote]

That was a close one!

Do you go all out every session, or do you save a few reps and go all out on specific sessions? If so, how do you decide when your going to go for it, and when your going to hold back?

Cheers.[/quote]

Well I make rep goals for all of the lifts before I start a cycle and I am almost always trying to reach them, but on some shitty days I take it easy. In bench lately I have gone balls-out everytime for over a cycle now and though I dont go to complet failure I guess its just one more rep or perhaps half a rep left in the tank if you understand. In deads and squats I stop way before failure because those excercises can fuck you up bad if you screw up. If I where to choose my battles as you are refering to, I guess there are many ways of doing this, but one way is to not go balls out on the 3x5 week and 3x3 week and saving the extreme effort to the 5/3/1 week. Thats one way, another way is to hold back when you dont feel 100% and go all-out when you feel great.

I will recommend that you make realistic goals for all the weeks on all the lifts and try to reach them aslong as you feel up to it.

Hope that made sense.

[quote]Hardrock123 wrote:
24/05/2012

Weight: 75.4kg

Deadlift 5/3/1.
45kg, 5
55kg, 5
65kg, 3

70kg, 5
82.5kg, 5
92.5kg, 20 (REP) PR

Press 5/3/1.
22.5kg, 5
27.5kg, 5
32.5kg, 3

35kg, 5
42.5kg, 5
47.5kg, 7 (!)

Wide(ish)-grip chinups 10x5 (supersetted between Press, GHR and abs)

GHR 3x5

Sit up circuit; sprinters, v-ups, toe touches, hip thrusts, 2x10 each

Really happy with deadlift, but I don’t know what happened to my press? I did 50kg for 8 reps last week, and couldn’t get anymore than 7 today.

I was supersetting chinups in between sets so this may have affected it? Although I have done that before with no problems, and have read Wendler recommending it multiple times.

Next press workout I will do the press first, and won’t superset, to see if it was fatigue from the deadlifts or chinups that affected it.

Anyone have any input as to why press was tough this time around?

Thanks.[/quote]
Hey dude. The press is the toughest lift to advance in, bar none. If you are having even a slightly weak day, it will suffer.

In this particular case, I expect the deadlift PR drained you. Deadlift is an extremely taxing lift; no surprises you struggled with your press after a max effort pull.

I wouldn’t knee-jerk by dropping the chin ups. These will help you, not hinder you. Give your body a chance to adapt.

Another point - I find my “5” week is always my weakest. Next week your press may be considerably stronger.

Good training thus far, keep it up!

28/05/2012

Bench 5/3/1.
32.5kg, 5
40kg, 5
47.5kg, 3

55kg, 3
62.5kg, 3
70kg, 3

Front Squat.
Warm up sets
80kg, 3

Kroc rows,
2x10, 20kg,
1x20, 30kg

GHR, 3x5

Pull ups
2x10
1x7

Was feeling really run down after last weeks sessions, and having lots of studying. Was my final week of University, so took it relatively easy on Monday. Just decided to go for the prescribed reps on bench.

I’m switching to front squats on reading a lot of Dan John’s articles. I like the back squat a lot, but I have been having minor back discomfort despite spending a lot of time working on form.

I’m going to give front squats a go for a while and see how they go. I know they are worse for mass development, but Dan John argues that their athletic crossover is good, so who knows. Just trying to establish a one rep max these next two weeks, so I can do 5/3/1 percentages for them if I do another cycle after this one.

Abs were a little sore, so did pullups instead of any ab work.

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]Hardrock123 wrote:
24/05/2012

Weight: 75.4kg

Deadlift 5/3/1.
45kg, 5
55kg, 5
65kg, 3

70kg, 5
82.5kg, 5
92.5kg, 20 (REP) PR

Press 5/3/1.
22.5kg, 5
27.5kg, 5
32.5kg, 3

35kg, 5
42.5kg, 5
47.5kg, 7 (!)

Wide(ish)-grip chinups 10x5 (supersetted between Press, GHR and abs)

GHR 3x5

Sit up circuit; sprinters, v-ups, toe touches, hip thrusts, 2x10 each

Really happy with deadlift, but I don’t know what happened to my press? I did 50kg for 8 reps last week, and couldn’t get anymore than 7 today.

I was supersetting chinups in between sets so this may have affected it? Although I have done that before with no problems, and have read Wendler recommending it multiple times.

Next press workout I will do the press first, and won’t superset, to see if it was fatigue from the deadlifts or chinups that affected it.

Anyone have any input as to why press was tough this time around?

Thanks.[/quote]
Hey dude. The press is the toughest lift to advance in, bar none. If you are having even a slightly weak day, it will suffer.

In this particular case, I expect the deadlift PR drained you. Deadlift is an extremely taxing lift; no surprises you struggled with your press after a max effort pull.

I wouldn’t knee-jerk by dropping the chin ups. These will help you, not hinder you. Give your body a chance to adapt.

Another point - I find my “5” week is always my weakest. Next week your press may be considerably stronger.

Good training thus far, keep it up![/quote]

Thanks for the feedback. I think your right, and I just over did it a bit on the deadlifts.

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Hardrock123 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
You beat me with one rep, 1-0 to you.

[/quote]

That was a close one!

Do you go all out every session, or do you save a few reps and go all out on specific sessions? If so, how do you decide when your going to go for it, and when your going to hold back?

Cheers.[/quote]

Well I make rep goals for all of the lifts before I start a cycle and I am almost always trying to reach them, but on some shitty days I take it easy. In bench lately I have gone balls-out everytime for over a cycle now and though I dont go to complet failure I guess its just one more rep or perhaps half a rep left in the tank if you understand. In deads and squats I stop way before failure because those excercises can fuck you up bad if you screw up. If I where to choose my battles as you are refering to, I guess there are many ways of doing this, but one way is to not go balls out on the 3x5 week and 3x3 week and saving the extreme effort to the 5/3/1 week. Thats one way, another way is to hold back when you dont feel 100% and go all-out when you feel great.

I will recommend that you make realistic goals for all the weeks on all the lifts and try to reach them aslong as you feel up to it.

Hope that made sense.
[/quote]

Hey, thanks for the info. I think I might do as you suggest and hold back on the initial weeks, then go all out on the final week. I find it fairly hard to stop myself in the gym, so will see how this works out.

Also, think you must have me beat on bench this week!

[quote]Hardrock123 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Hardrock123 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
You beat me with one rep, 1-0 to you.

[/quote]

That was a close one!

Do you go all out every session, or do you save a few reps and go all out on specific sessions? If so, how do you decide when your going to go for it, and when your going to hold back?

Cheers.[/quote]

Well I make rep goals for all of the lifts before I start a cycle and I am almost always trying to reach them, but on some shitty days I take it easy. In bench lately I have gone balls-out everytime for over a cycle now and though I dont go to complet failure I guess its just one more rep or perhaps half a rep left in the tank if you understand. In deads and squats I stop way before failure because those excercises can fuck you up bad if you screw up. If I where to choose my battles as you are refering to, I guess there are many ways of doing this, but one way is to not go balls out on the 3x5 week and 3x3 week and saving the extreme effort to the 5/3/1 week. Thats one way, another way is to hold back when you dont feel 100% and go all-out when you feel great.

I will recommend that you make realistic goals for all the weeks on all the lifts and try to reach them aslong as you feel up to it.

Hope that made sense.
[/quote]

Hey, thanks for the info. I think I might do as you suggest and hold back on the initial weeks, then go all out on the final week. I find it fairly hard to stop myself in the gym, so will see how this works out.

Also, think you must have me beat on bench this week!
[/quote]

You are welcome and regarding how you approach the rep maxes, I would not hold back if you feel up to it, but then again you can try the approach you mentioned. I myself hit them hard whenver I can, but hold back if I feel like complete shit LOL. Whatever you do you will be fine since the progression is buildt in the program. For my the rep maxes are a motivation factor. Sorry for rant, have had two exams on consecutive days, so my head is spinning and that gets me to my second point, I doubt I will beat you bench this weeks since I have been up all night writing my home-exam and will go train after in approx 8 hour, I am probably a zombie by then I envision a crappy session with just minimums reps. I will however go balls out on bench if I feel up to it haha.

Read that you also had your exam this week, well how did you feel it go?

31/05/2012

Deadlift 5/3/1.
45kg, 5
60kg, 5
65kg, 3

77.5kg, 3
87.5kg, 3
97.5kg, 3

Supersetted with close-grip chinups, 5x10

Press 5/3/1/.
22.5kg, 5
27.5kg, 5
32.5kg, 3

37.5kg, 3
45kg, 3
50kg, 3

Supersetted with goblet squats, 5x10

Dips, 5x10
Supersetted with
Barbell curls, 5x10, 20kg

Complex, 3 circuits
Row, 8
Clean, 8
Front squat, 8
Press, 8
Back squat, 8
Good morning, 8

With bar (20kg) (started out with 30kg, but was too heavy… I feel weak, but enjoyed these).

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Hardrock123 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Hardrock123 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
You beat me with one rep, 1-0 to you.

[/quote]

That was a close one!

Do you go all out every session, or do you save a few reps and go all out on specific sessions? If so, how do you decide when your going to go for it, and when your going to hold back?

Cheers.[/quote]

Well I make rep goals for all of the lifts before I start a cycle and I am almost always trying to reach them, but on some shitty days I take it easy. In bench lately I have gone balls-out everytime for over a cycle now and though I dont go to complet failure I guess its just one more rep or perhaps half a rep left in the tank if you understand. In deads and squats I stop way before failure because those excercises can fuck you up bad if you screw up. If I where to choose my battles as you are refering to, I guess there are many ways of doing this, but one way is to not go balls out on the 3x5 week and 3x3 week and saving the extreme effort to the 5/3/1 week. Thats one way, another way is to hold back when you dont feel 100% and go all-out when you feel great.

I will recommend that you make realistic goals for all the weeks on all the lifts and try to reach them aslong as you feel up to it.

Hope that made sense.
[/quote]

Hey, thanks for the info. I think I might do as you suggest and hold back on the initial weeks, then go all out on the final week. I find it fairly hard to stop myself in the gym, so will see how this works out.

Also, think you must have me beat on bench this week!
[/quote]

You are welcome and regarding how you approach the rep maxes, I would not hold back if you feel up to it, but then again you can try the approach you mentioned. I myself hit them hard whenver I can, but hold back if I feel like complete shit LOL. Whatever you do you will be fine since the progression is buildt in the program. For my the rep maxes are a motivation factor. Sorry for rant, have had two exams on consecutive days, so my head is spinning and that gets me to my second point, I doubt I will beat you bench this weeks since I have been up all night writing my home-exam and will go train after in approx 8 hour, I am probably a zombie by then I envision a crappy session with just minimums reps. I will however go balls out on bench if I feel up to it haha.

Read that you also had your exam this week, well how did you feel it go?
[/quote]

It went OK, was a stressful week, but will be the last one for a while. Bit of stress is good occasionally!

Hope yours goes OK as well.

04/06/2012

Front Squat.
30kg, 5
40kg, 5
50kg, 5
60kg, 3
70kg, 7

Supersetted with wide-grip pullups, 4x10

Bench 5/3/1.
32.5kg, 5
40kg, 5
47.5kg, 3

57.5kg, 5
65kg, 3
72.5kg, 7 (PR)

Supersetted with goblet squats, 5x10, 20kg KB

Curls, 5x10, 20kg
Supersetted with
dips
4x10

Complex, 20kg, 3x8

Row
Clean
Front squat
Press
Back squat
Good morning

Need to reduce assistance to 3x10 for future 5/3/1 weeks. Happy with bench, though. Front squats are feeling a lot more comfotable, will use 5/3/1 on them next cycle.

Good workout dude and congrats on the bench PR :), Its seems I have to hit 8reps to beat you haha.