1 and 2: This was answered in another thread by Chris C.
3: Where did you get 2lbs?
4: Where did you get those weights and you are confusing TM with PR. You can’t do more then that. It’s a well rounded program that produces results. Also, you haven’t tried it and you “think” you can do more?
5/3/1 is pretty much a “PowerBuilding” program, especially with high rep assistance. It makes you big and strong. There are more efficient programs for pure powerlifting strength gains and better programs for pure hypertrophy size gains but it is pretty fucking ideal if you want both, plus conditioning and mobility.
[quote]Mattyb83 wrote:
There are more efficient programs for pure powerlifting strength gains and better programs for pure hypertrophy size gains[/quote]
I don’t want to nitpick too much, but what do you mean by this?
Maybe we’re not thinking of the same thing when someone says “5/3/1”, but for me it’s a philosophy of training that can be (and needs to be) customized to your sport or goal.
If you have a particular “program” or “routine” in mind, like the standard 4-day split with BBB assistance or whatever, I guess I’d agree that that’s probably not the most “efficient” for a powerlifter most of the time.
But we could both be using training that’s based in this philosophy and our “programs” could look radically different. You could train 2 days a week, I could train 6, you could have high volume assistance, I could use something like spinal tap with jokers and be hitting heavy weight with just the powerlifts every day.
[quote]creatinejunkie wrote:
I want to start this routine, but few questions are bugging me:
if i continue to eat big, will i gain muscle with this routine?
if yes, will i gain muscle efficiently? for example, compared to 5x5, or classic bodybuilding routines (3x10; 4x8; etc.)[/quote]
1 - Yes.
2 - Do the main lifts to get strongers do whatever assistance work fits your goals. Seems like Boring But Big is what you’re looking for.
[quote]3. routine suggests adding 2 lbs on upper body lifts every month, but smallest weight in my gym is 2.5 kg (about 5.5 lbs). how to deal with this problem?
4. isn’t adding 2-5 lbs every month is too small gains? i’m young lifter, i think i could do more than that[/quote]
3 - buy 2x 1.25kg plates. It’s £10/10 euro or something. Just do it.
4 - Small increases don’t = small gains. Not the same thing. And small increases means gains for longer. Which means bigger gains in the long term. But, you know best. Apparently.
[quote]creatinejunkie wrote:
Sorry, my mistake. But still, minimum weight i can add is 11 lbs (5 kg) because my gym doesn’t have smaller plates[/quote]
Then go up the minimum you can. It’s not ideal, but the program will still function… you just might find you need to reset upper body lifts more frequently.
[quote]creatinejunkie wrote:
4. isn’t adding 2-5 lbs every month is too small gains? i’m young lifter, i think i could do more than that[/quote]
4 - Small increases don’t = small gains. Not the same thing. And small increases means gains for longer. Which means bigger gains in the long term. But, you know best. Apparently.
[/quote]
That’s an important point.
Just because your training weights increase only 2-5 lbs a month doesn’t mean your max increased only 2-5 lbs a month. If I add 5 lbs to a lift, but I can do twice as many reps, I added quite a bit more than 5 lbs to my max.
[quote]Mattyb83 wrote:
There are more efficient programs for pure powerlifting strength gains and better programs for pure hypertrophy size gains[/quote]
I don’t want to nitpick too much, but what do you mean by this?
Maybe we’re not thinking of the same thing when someone says “5/3/1”, but for me it’s a philosophy of training that can be (and needs to be) customized to your sport or goal.
If you have a particular “program” or “routine” in mind, like the standard 4-day split with BBB assistance or whatever, I guess I’d agree that that’s probably not the most “efficient” for a powerlifter most of the time.
But we could both be using training that’s based in this philosophy and our “programs” could look radically different. You could train 2 days a week, I could train 6, you could have high volume assistance, I could use something like spinal tap with jokers and be hitting heavy weight with just the powerlifts every day.[/quote]
5/3/1 is great for consistent size and strength gains but a lifter looking for the most EFFICIENT strength gains i.e. Fastest total boosts would better off doing a powerlifting specific program (e.g. Sheiko programs) for faster strength gains in the powerlifts. Jim believes in slow, steady progress and 5/3/1 delivers that. Just as a bodybuilder would be better off running a bodybuilding split, 5/3/1 at its core with almost all of its templates will make you bigger.
I run 5/3/1 because I enjoy the customization, variation, rep PRs, money sets, slow progress, MILITARY PRESSING, training strength like a bodybuilder (or however he words that principle) etc. and because I like getting bigger, stronger and more athletic. I fucking love the program and there are definitely templates that cater to either goal more strongly, but to say it’s the fastest way to either size or strength is probably false; it’s more all around beneficial and in that way it is amazing.
Some good responses already I will just add a few things.
1./2. Diet for size and strength is addressed in a fair amount of detail in 2nd Ed. Also the BBB 3-month challenge article on T-Nation talks about eating and getting big. You could read that article even if you do not want to do BBB.
Add weight to your TM then recompute what your 5/3/1 sets will be. It never comes out exactly even so you just round to whatever your smallest plates will let you do. I always round away from having to use 2.5 lbs plates just because I am weird like that, the program still works.
Jokers are your friend. And to echo LoRez, a 5 lbs increment in your TM could correspond to any number of things in your true max.
[quote]creatinejunkie wrote:
Sorry, my mistake. But still, minimum weight i can add is 11 lbs (5 kg) because my gym doesn’t have smaller plates[/quote]
I think Ramo said all that needed to be said to your questions. My suggestion for you would be to go buy two 2.5lb / 1.1kg plates and keep them in your gym bag. If you don’t have a gym bag, buy one with the plates.
Thanks for answers I understand that point of 5/3/1 is slow steady gains, but in my opinion this would be beneficial to advanced lifter, whose gains had slowed down. I’m only training for 2 or 3 years.
Or is there any other good routine to get big and strong? What im doing now works for me already, but im just interested if there is anything that can work even better
[quote]creatinejunkie wrote:
Or is there any other good routine to get big and strong? What im doing now works for me already, but im just interested if there is anything that can work even better[/quote]
[quote]creatinejunkie wrote:
Or is there any other good routine to get big and strong? What im doing now works for me already, but im just interested if there is anything that can work even better[/quote]
What’s the rush? Serious question.[/quote]
Better to gain 20 kilos then 15, if it’s possible. I want to do my best
Better to gain 20 kilos then 15, if it’s possible. I want to do my best
[/quote]
You are looking at training the wrong way, and without adjusting your perspective you are likely to fail.
A training program is like a car, an athlete is like a driver.
Pick a good car that won’t break down and that you are comfortable operating. Once you’ve done that, whether you get where you want to go depends on how good a driver you are, NOT on the car.
Better to gain 20 kilos then 15, if it’s possible. I want to do my best
[/quote]
You are looking at training the wrong way, and without adjusting your perspective you are likely to fail.
A training program is like a car, an athlete is like a driver.
Pick a good car that won’t break down and that you are comfortable operating. Once you’ve done that, whether you get where you want to go depends on how good a driver you are, NOT on the car.[/quote]
True, but for example, if my “car” would be sprinting or crossfit, i wouldn’t build muscle to my best potential, doesn’t matter how good of a driver i am
True, but for example, if my “car” would be sprinting or crossfit, i wouldn’t build muscle to my best potential, doesn’t matter how good of a driver i am
[/quote]
You’re right chief.
You have formed a lot of opinions about training, so you should trust them and do what you think is best.
If you’re looking for training debate, I’ll politely decline.
[quote]creatinejunkie wrote:
Or is there any other good routine to get big and strong? What im doing now works for me already, but im just interested if there is anything that can work even better[/quote]
What’s the rush? Serious question.[/quote]
Better to gain 20 kilos then 15, if it’s possible. I want to do my best
[/quote]
I would reread the answers to your 4th question.
Slipping into a very highly analytical view…
Doing work in the 60-70% range helps increase your strength.
Doing work in the 70-80% range helps increase your strength.
Doing work in the 80-90% range helps increase your strength.
Doing work in the 90-100% range helps increase your strength.
5/3/1 forces you to do quality work in a wide variety of %-based intensities. However, strength is built via somewhat different means at each of those intensities.
Borrowing from a recent article by Christian Thibaudeau:
60% Minimal effective load to stimulate growth
70% Low-end of the best zone to stimulate muscle growth
80% Best load to build maximal strength without making inroads into recovery; High-end of the best zone to stimulate growth. From my experience 75-80% is best for hypertrophy
90% Optimal training load to maximize strength development (85-90%); Will increase muscle hardness and density
100% Training load best suited to learn how display maximal strength (92-100%)
By getting work in each of those areas, you’re going to make good progress.
I understand that point of 5/3/1 is slow steady gains, but in my opinion this would be beneficial to advanced lifter, whose gains had slowed down. I’m only training for 2 or 3 years.