T Nation

5/3/1 Front Squats

I read in the ebook that Jim said it was ok to sub front squat for back squat, is anyone doing this? Im thinking of trying it, i was suprised to read this because i thought it was forbidden to swap exercises , but in Q &A section of the e-book he said it is allowed, any thoughts??

Do you have a good reason for doing it?

Do 5/3/1 for whatever lift you want to improve, imo. If you are a PLer, you probly wanna improve your big three, but if a front squat builds your deadlift or squat, it obviously wouldn’t hurt to raise your front squat.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Do you have a good reason for doing it?[/quote]

This. Is there a reason you want to switch? Another option is to keep regular squats and then use front squats as an assistance exercise (using the simplest strength template percentages)

A guy did an article on elite about using 5/3/1 for his front squat to bring it up. He was a weightlifter though and quite a good one.

ITS THE HOLY GRAIL, THE SECRET TO STRENGTH. PLEASE DONT POST THIS ON THE FORUMS, KEEP IT BETWEEN US

I´ve read Wendler say ok for it, and I´ve read Wendler say no to it, but ok for 5 x 10 work. Wendler also says 5 3 1 is great for not only the 4 major lifts in 5 3 1, barbell row.
Point is that nothing is cut in stone, and maybe its time to try something and evaluate and do a bit of thinking by oneself in stead of only relying on what others say and think.

Squats are harder than frontsquats, why do you think that is?.

[quote]Backbone wrote:

Squats are harder than frontsquats, why do you think that is?.[/quote]

what?

The reasons I can think of for doing it is if your squat stalls and you need another variation and you’ve had good luck with them as assistance. Or maybe your back is kinda iffy and you need something less stressful. Or if you’re into aesthetics and you think your hams are overpowering your quads. Some sort of reason like that. Not just a change in the basic template for the sake of doing something different.

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]Backbone wrote:

Squats are harder than frontsquats, why do you think that is?.[/quote]

what?[/quote]
I Mean:
Do 5 sets of 10 of squats at any given percentage.
Do 5 sets of 10 of Frontsquats at the same relative percentage and see what wears you the most out, and see how long time your recuperation takes.

[quote]Backbone wrote:

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]Backbone wrote:

Squats are harder than frontsquats, why do you think that is?.[/quote]

what?[/quote]
I Mean:
Do 5 sets of 10 of squats at any given percentage.
Do 5 sets of 10 of Frontsquats at the same relative percentage and see what wears you the most out, and see how long time your recuperation takes.

[/quote]

Personally i think the front squats would be harder. Maybe thats just me.

You can use front squats as an assistance exercise on the day you deadlift as 5X10. I think in one of the “blood and chalk” articles he actually said it is a great assistance exercise to it.

For an example if you are doing a full body 5/3/1 on the day you deadlift it would be deadlift as you would normally, military press as you would normally, ( I forgot how the program has you doing it since there are many many variations of this I have seen) then 5X10 front squat followed by whatever assistance you think you need/would help you.

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]Backbone wrote:

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]Backbone wrote:

Squats are harder than frontsquats, why do you think that is?.[/quote]

what?[/quote]
I Mean:
Do 5 sets of 10 of squats at any given percentage.
Do 5 sets of 10 of Frontsquats at the same relative percentage and see what wears you the most out, and see how long time your recuperation takes.

[/quote]

Personally i think the front squats would be harder. Maybe thats just me.[/quote]

its not just you. its me too.
I mean holding a bar close enough to the neck it kinda chokes you…makes them alot harder than being able to stand with a bar on ur back and just rest…IMO

Are we talking technique or muscle work here?.
I´m talking muscle work and fatique?

[quote]Backbone wrote:
Are we talking technique or muscle work here?.
I�´m talking muscle work and fatique?[/quote]

I am talking muscle work. For example I think 5x10@250 Backsquat would be easier than 5x10@205 Frontsquat. Either way its pretty irrelevant haha

Edit: Ill weigh in the on the discussion. I think if your a ways out from a meet and front squats have good carry over to your squat or deadlift running a few cycles using them as your main movement I think could be a good idea. Once you get closer to a meet use them as assistance work.

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I lift for rugby and am finding that my lower back isn’t recovering fast enough. Front squats as a replacement a viable option for this?

[quote]Cantelope wrote:
Sorry to bump an old thread, but I lift for rugby and am finding that my lower back isn’t recovering fast enough. Front squats as a replacement a viable option for this?[/quote]

Yes, they would be.

Or Box Squats…

Or John Meadows 1.5 Smith Machine Back Squats

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDlVqEMdowk&feature=player_embedded (Go to 0:51)

Since this thread got dug up, I may as well comment haha

Just did a couple cycles of 5/3/1 with front squats, and it fucking sucked. Even with my front squat numbers being really crappy (60% of my back squat), it was way harder, especially the BBB challenge sets.

I’ve looked into doing the 5/3/1 for PL, but I prefer the original rep/weight progression. After doing an all out 5+ rep set, I can’t usually hit the singles I want to (usually around >90%) so I started doing singles/doubles from pins. Then I discovered I could, already being warm, hit a full depth front squat with reasonable poundage even though my low back/hams were fatigued. On my 3 week I don’t do additional singles, on 531 week I stick with the pin squats. I tried 5x10 FS on both squat and DL days, but I’d rather just stick with back squat for BB assistance as it’s the lift I train.

Another way to work in FS are in a warm-up complex before/after deadlifts.

For me “Beyond 5/3/1 and Fatherland” has been good program, since I hit 5/3/1 Squats and then I do 10x10 FS. If you really hate yourself that day and want have some shake legs that is way to do it.