Hello,
back from vacation 
Before I go on vacation, I bought the new ‘second edition’ of Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1 ebook.
Best book I’ve ever read.
There is one chapter about assistance work ‘DC style’. Before I read the book I did not know this type of training.
Has anyone tried the 5/3/1 rest/pause training template ?
Mathieu
No, and I’ve never heard of anyone else doing it, via this website or other websites… even one geared pretty much specifically towards DC-trainees and philosophies.
I would recommend against it. And I base that on nothing other than basic DC mantra and what I would expect Dante to say.
Pick one or the other, and stick with it as written or with as little variation as possible… IMHO.
I wouldn’t see an issue doing ASSISTANCE work rest-pause style. Just don’t over do it. But I really wouldn’t try to blend the two styles of training together. That would be a train wreck.
Yeah, I remember he mentions it for assistance. Basically, it’s fine. Just remember if you are intensifying your assistance, you may want to focus on that. I wouldn’t do it while going balls to the wall on the main lift and conditioning.
Are you refering to page 60 or page 61 and with the way Jim has set it up ( tweaking as he calls it) for a 5/3/1 template?
I just started my 7th week of Jim’s tweaking ( on page 61) as he calls it. so far I am really pleased with that template and and plan to continue with it. I love working out 3 days a week and being able to press and deadlift twice a week and then only benching and squating once a week and then switching them around the next week to benching and squating twice a week and then only pressing and deadlifting that week.
Jim does mention that you should do at least a 2 mile walk for cardio every day. I do that 5 times a week.
If you give that template a try make sure you are eating enough.
I more to tell you but I have a meeting right now so I will get back to you later.
Bryan
[quote]Bryan Breeden wrote:
Are you refering to page 60 or page 61 and with the way Jim has set it up ( tweaking as he calls it) for a 5/3/1 template?
[/quote]
YES !
For others : it is not strictly an assistance work. It is 5/3/1 with DC style Jim’s set up.
I can’t tell more because of copyrights I guess…
Mathieu
Many people have already said this, and I will do nothing but regurgitate it from past experience.
Do not try to MIX programs and expect to get the best results you could have possibly get.I,and so many others have been victims of trying to do this,and I would say about 99% of the population of lifters who tried this agree that it was not worth it.
5/3/1 was made to be 5/3/1. Notice how Wendler put maybe 1 page about POSSIBLY adding DC rep style to assistance work? It’s almost like he was just trying to make people be happy with sticking a page in. He didn’t get his 1,000 pound squat getting there; he got there sticking with basics.
Also, I believe the consensus (between Wendler,and many other advanced lifters,and average lifters like myself who train hard) is that the principle of “Rest Pausing” some accessory work is OK.
The big problem is as soon as you tell somebody, “OH YEAH,GO AHEAD AND MIX IN DC WITH 5/3/1” is that they ALWAYS SEEM TO GO OVERBOARD and burn out/get injured/get worse results etc. etc. etc.
Doing your sets of 3x12 rear delt flies, and maybe on the 3rd set doing the Rest-Pause principle of waiting a few seconds and banging out some more reps, then repeating it again… is much more ‘acceptable’ and ‘beneficial’. Alot of bodybuilders/powerlifters do this inadvertently without even thinking “Oh this is DC training,or oh this is Rest Pause Training”.
For example,today in my Press workout, when I was doing side laterals, I failed at about 12 reps, waited maybe 5-6 seconds, then did another 3 reps, and again got another 3 reps after resting the dumbbells down for maybe another 5-6 seconds. It’s not “DC”, but it’s a similar principle.
DON’T GET INTO THE MENTALITY OF “USING DC” with 5/3/1 . DON’T DO DC SETS OF DUMBBELL INCLINE BENCH AS ACCESSORY AFTER YOUR BENCH OR PRESS DAY,ETC.
PICK ONE PROGRAM OR THE OTHER - PICK DC OR 5/3/1!
Ok, I am back.
Not sure about this copy right stuff. so I will not say any more lol. If you have any questions,
PM. me if you want.
By just to couple of other comments not to many are doing this training template. On page 63 Jim even mentions that. in the notes section. When he writes while it is like DC training I do not know many people that would try it.
Once I got my training rep maxes and started the program. I had that soreness that comes with lifting.
(DOMS) I have heard it refered to.
A friend told me to take more Vit. C. 2000 mg. in the morning, noon and evening and I have hardly any soreness the next day.
Bryan
[quote]mat_angus wrote:
[quote]Bryan Breeden wrote:
Are you refering to page 60 or page 61 and with the way Jim has set it up ( tweaking as he calls it) for a 5/3/1 template?
[/quote]
YES !
For others : it is not strictly an assistance work. It is 5/3/1 with DC style Jim’s set up.
I can’t tell more because of copyrights I guess…
Mathieu
[/quote]
So basically it’s just DC training at it’s core, but follows the progression of % set up by Wendler. Sounds like quite a few might have missed the point of what you were asking here.
Sounds fine. But be sure to do it for several months before you decide if you like it. Keep a training log. That’s a crucial element to progressing each week on DC.
LOL why is Ethan7X still posting?
[quote]SSC wrote:
No, and I’ve never heard of anyone else doing it, via this website or other websites… even one geared pretty much specifically towards DC-trainees and philosophies.
[/quote]
I think part of the reason you haven’t is because any time anyone mentions doing any accessory template that isn’t 100% to the t what Wendler has outlined in one of his recommended templates, 8,000 fan boys will jump on their balls.
This is ironic, because I’ve personally read the book and I was always completely under the impression that 5/3/1 was merely the template on the big 4 lifts, and that Wendler himself made it very clear that you could “accessorize” how ever you see fit. I saw the templates he provided as kind of a bonus if the reader was having trouble figuring out how to piece it all together, so he gave them a place to start.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]SSC wrote:
No, and I’ve never heard of anyone else doing it, via this website or other websites… even one geared pretty much specifically towards DC-trainees and philosophies.
[/quote]
I think part of the reason you haven’t is because any time anyone mentions doing any accessory template that isn’t 100% to the t what Wendler has outlined in one of his recommended templates, 8,000 fan boys will jump on their balls.
This is ironic, because I’ve personally read the book and I was always completely under the impression that 5/3/1 was merely the template on the big 4 lifts, and that Wendler himself made it very clear that you could “accessorize” how ever you see fit. I saw the templates he provided as kind of a bonus if the reader was having trouble figuring out how to piece it all together, so he gave them a place to start. [/quote]
Eh, not so much. More to do with “not overly fucking with DC” more than fucking with 5/3/1 to any capacity.
I think that Wendler’s 5/3/1 is great for people who can consistently do big lifts, which isn’t me, so I haven’t paid much attention to it beyond a short stint last summer where I had some success.
That being said, I frequent another site, again, catered mostly to DC dogma, and have not seen this come up once.
[quote]SSC wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]SSC wrote:
No, and I’ve never heard of anyone else doing it, via this website or other websites… even one geared pretty much specifically towards DC-trainees and philosophies.
[/quote]
I think part of the reason you haven’t is because any time anyone mentions doing any accessory template that isn’t 100% to the t what Wendler has outlined in one of his recommended templates, 8,000 fan boys will jump on their balls.
This is ironic, because I’ve personally read the book and I was always completely under the impression that 5/3/1 was merely the template on the big 4 lifts, and that Wendler himself made it very clear that you could “accessorize” how ever you see fit. I saw the templates he provided as kind of a bonus if the reader was having trouble figuring out how to piece it all together, so he gave them a place to start. [/quote]
Eh, not so much. More to do with “not overly fucking with DC” more than fucking with 5/3/1 to any capacity.
I think that Wendler’s 5/3/1 is great for people who can consistently do big lifts, which isn’t me, so I haven’t paid much attention to it beyond a short stint last summer where I had some success.
That being said, I frequent another site, again, catered mostly to DC dogma, and have not seen this come up once.[/quote]
Ah, I see. More the DC side of things. Yea. OP should just do DC.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]SSC wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]SSC wrote:
No, and I’ve never heard of anyone else doing it, via this website or other websites… even one geared pretty much specifically towards DC-trainees and philosophies.
[/quote]
I think part of the reason you haven’t is because any time anyone mentions doing any accessory template that isn’t 100% to the t what Wendler has outlined in one of his recommended templates, 8,000 fan boys will jump on their balls.
This is ironic, because I’ve personally read the book and I was always completely under the impression that 5/3/1 was merely the template on the big 4 lifts, and that Wendler himself made it very clear that you could “accessorize” how ever you see fit. I saw the templates he provided as kind of a bonus if the reader was having trouble figuring out how to piece it all together, so he gave them a place to start. [/quote]
Eh, not so much. More to do with “not overly fucking with DC” more than fucking with 5/3/1 to any capacity.
I think that Wendler’s 5/3/1 is great for people who can consistently do big lifts, which isn’t me, so I haven’t paid much attention to it beyond a short stint last summer where I had some success.
That being said, I frequent another site, again, catered mostly to DC dogma, and have not seen this come up once.[/quote]
Ah, I see. More the DC side of things. Yea. OP should just do DC. [/quote]
Wendler’s pretty sensible, seems like he has some outstanding insight into most aspects of lifting. If there’s something written in the book like you mentioned, I’m sure it’s good stuff.
I know I was stupid and bullheaded, and ended up doing wayyyyyy too much assistance work when running 5/3/1 as well. Which is why I just personally couldn’t recommend the hybrid, based on my own experience and anecdotes. Based on some what others mentioned above, sounds pretty reasonable, given the RP stuff wasn’t utilized too excessively.
Good luck, OP!
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
5/3/1 was made to be 5/3/1. Notice how Wendler put maybe 1 page about POSSIBLY adding DC rep style to assistance work? It’s almost like he was just trying to make people be happy with sticking a page in. [/quote]
did you read the book ?
I think no, because this is absolutly false…
Jim put MANY pages and details about 5/3/1 and DC training.
And YES, the frame is the same as the original 5/3/1 : squat, dead, press and bench.
Hey! this is a book about 5/3/1
Mathieu
5/3/1 and DC should not be mixed. I wasn’t sure what JW was thinking when he included that in the book. First, rest pausing bench press is a BIG no no among DC trainees. Second, how do you progress using DC as assistance when the core of DC is progression? Those were some of the things that first came to mind when I read it. I forgot what the rest of the program is like but I’m pretty sure there are a few more flaws that I can point out.
[quote]Doh wrote:
5/3/1 and DC should not be mixed. I wasn’t sure what JW was thinking when he included that in the book. First, rest pausing bench press is a BIG no no among DC trainees. Second, how do you progress using DC as assistance when the core of DC is progression? Those were some of the things that first came to mind when I read it. I forgot what the rest of the program is like but I’m pretty sure there are a few more flaws that I can point out. [/quote]
Yeah, I thought a more appropriate title would have been 5/3/1 and rest-pause. That seems doable. But actual DC and 5/3/1 would not only be too much, I think some of the main premises are mutually exclusive.
[quote]Doh wrote:
5/3/1 and DC should not be mixed. I wasn’t sure what JW was thinking when he included that in the book. First, rest pausing bench press is a BIG no no among DC trainees. Second, how do you progress using DC as assistance when the core of DC is progression? Those were some of the things that first came to mind when I read it. I forgot what the rest of the program is like but I’m pretty sure there are a few more flaws that I can point out. [/quote]
I didn’t know anything about DC until yesterday. Why is rest-pause on bench press a no-no? If you don’t have a spotter or safety bars, I get it, but otherwise?
Just add rest-pause to assistence work when you feel like it. It’s not Doggcrapp, so I don’t see what the big fuss is.
[quote]mat_angus wrote:
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
5/3/1 was made to be 5/3/1. Notice how Wendler put maybe 1 page about POSSIBLY adding DC rep style to assistance work? It’s almost like he was just trying to make people be happy with sticking a page in. [/quote]
did you read the book ?
I think no, because this is absolutly false…
Jim put MANY pages and details about 5/3/1 and DC training.
And YES, the frame is the same as the original 5/3/1 : squat, dead, press and bench.
Hey! this is a book about 5/3/1
Mathieu
[/quote]
Just go ahead and lift the way you want. This whole idea of it being a great sin to alter a program is ridiculous. If it works for you, great. If not, don’t blame 5/3/1 or DC.