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5/3/1 and Hypertrophy

I want to maximize hypertrophy as well as strength. I’m just getting back into 5/3/1 after a few months away from it experimenting with a few other self written programs. I have grasped the less is more concept that Jim has always preached. My current split looks like this:

Monday- Bench 5/3/1
Tuesday- Squat 5/3/1
Thursday- Press 5/3/1
Friday- Deadlift 5/3/1

1-2 times/ week on off days: sprints or bike tempos

My idea is to do 1 accessory set for the main lift, and then 2-3 hypertrophic (balance) sets to finish up my workout each day. The assistance would appear as such:

Bench and press- weighted dips 5x10, chins or lat pulls downs 5x10, supported/ DB rows 5x10, bicep movement 5x10
Squat and deads- weighted back raises 5x10, calves 5x10, wendlers Ab circuit x 2-3

Does anyone have any suggestions/ alterations to maximize my goals for this? Let me know, thanks!!

I would just use the basic BBB if you need to put on weight. I think it makes more sense than what you listed.

If you prefer, you might also consider the periodization bible or bodybuilder assistance templates to go w/ the base 5/3/1. Think these also make a little more sense than what you’ve got so far.

Just one quick related point, if you’re going to someone else for training info, you need to buy in all the way. Gives a psychological edge and will lead to better compliance and better results than taking an element of someone’s training advice and then fiddling with it a bunch. Sounds like you’re still at the point where you can get a lot of benefit out of ready made templates and I think the three I listed above are all viable options.

I understand wanting to put your own stamp on things and take some ownership for designing your own approach, but I think for now you’ll be happier with your progress if you follow one of those blueprints.

Best of luck

[quote]Ramo wrote:
I would just use the basic BBB if you need to put on weight. I think it makes more sense than what you listed.

If you prefer, you might also consider the periodization bible or bodybuilder assistance templates to go w/ the base 5/3/1. Think these also make a little more sense than what you’ve got so far.

Just one quick related point, if you’re going to someone else for training info, you need to buy in all the way. Gives a psychological edge and will lead to better compliance and better results than taking an element of someone’s training advice and then fiddling with it a bunch. Sounds like you’re still at the point where you can get a lot of benefit out of ready made templates and I think the three I listed above are all viable options.

I understand wanting to put your own stamp on things and take some ownership for designing your own approach, but I think for now you’ll be happier with your progress if you follow one of those blueprints.

Best of luck[/quote]

I agree. I think if you do one of the BBB variations with Joker Sets you’ll probably achieve your hypertrophy goals assuming your diet supports your goals.

[quote]Ramo wrote:
I would just use the basic BBB if you need to put on weight. I think it makes more sense than what you listed.

If you prefer, you might also consider the periodization bible or bodybuilder assistance templates to go w/ the base 5/3/1. Think these also make a little more sense than what you’ve got so far.

Just one quick related point, if you’re going to someone else for training info, you need to buy in all the way. Gives a psychological edge and will lead to better compliance and better results than taking an element of someone’s training advice and then fiddling with it a bunch. Sounds like you’re still at the point where you can get a lot of benefit out of ready made templates and I think the three I listed above are all viable options.

I understand wanting to put your own stamp on things and take some ownership for designing your own approach, but I think for now you’ll be happier with your progress if you follow one of those blueprints.

Best of luck[/quote]

I’ve tried BBB before and couldn’t stick with it, because, as the name suggests, it was way too boring. It was hard to find motivation to go to the gym and I didn’t notice any real progress over the two cycles I ran it. Also, all of the assistance I asked about are tried and suggested by wendler in his books. I have bought into his ideals completely, trust me. I only ask because I always want to know more. I feel like if I took some of the ideals from the periodization bible and what I have written out I could really get somewhere. Or is that still too much variation from the suggested?

Also, I do joker when I feel up to it, and always finish with FSL.

[quote]stscott3 wrote:

[quote]Ramo wrote:
I would just use the basic BBB if you need to put on weight. I think it makes more sense than what you listed.

If you prefer, you might also consider the periodization bible or bodybuilder assistance templates to go w/ the base 5/3/1. Think these also make a little more sense than what you’ve got so far.

Just one quick related point, if you’re going to someone else for training info, you need to buy in all the way. Gives a psychological edge and will lead to better compliance and better results than taking an element of someone’s training advice and then fiddling with it a bunch. Sounds like you’re still at the point where you can get a lot of benefit out of ready made templates and I think the three I listed above are all viable options.

I understand wanting to put your own stamp on things and take some ownership for designing your own approach, but I think for now you’ll be happier with your progress if you follow one of those blueprints.

Best of luck[/quote]

I’ve tried BBB before and couldn’t stick with it, because, as the name suggests, it was way too boring. It was hard to find motivation to go to the gym and I didn’t notice any real progress over the two cycles I ran it. Also, all of the assistance I asked about are tried and suggested by wendler in his books. I have bought into his ideals completely, trust me. I only ask because I always want to know more. I feel like if I took some of the ideals from the periodization bible and what I have written out I could really get somewhere. Or is that still too much variation from the suggested?
[/quote]

Then try the bbb challenge, that gives you something fun to play with. Also I would highly recommend first set last as that is a great way to get some solid volume in. Now I have read jim indicating not to combine the two, but I did and found it to work very well for me.

[quote]gsherman14 wrote:

[quote]stscott3 wrote:

[quote]Ramo wrote:
I would just use the basic BBB if you need to put on weight. I think it makes more sense than what you listed.

If you prefer, you might also consider the periodization bible or bodybuilder assistance templates to go w/ the base 5/3/1. Think these also make a little more sense than what you’ve got so far.

Just one quick related point, if you’re going to someone else for training info, you need to buy in all the way. Gives a psychological edge and will lead to better compliance and better results than taking an element of someone’s training advice and then fiddling with it a bunch. Sounds like you’re still at the point where you can get a lot of benefit out of ready made templates and I think the three I listed above are all viable options.

I understand wanting to put your own stamp on things and take some ownership for designing your own approach, but I think for now you’ll be happier with your progress if you follow one of those blueprints.

Best of luck[/quote]

I’ve tried BBB before and couldn’t stick with it, because, as the name suggests, it was way too boring. It was hard to find motivation to go to the gym and I didn’t notice any real progress over the two cycles I ran it. Also, all of the assistance I asked about are tried and suggested by wendler in his books. I have bought into his ideals completely, trust me. I only ask because I always want to know more. I feel like if I took some of the ideals from the periodization bible and what I have written out I could really get somewhere. Or is that still too much variation from the suggested?
[/quote]

Then try the bbb challenge, that gives you something fun to play with. Also I would highly recommend first set last as that is a great way to get some solid volume in. Now I have read jim indicating not to combine the two, but I did and found it to work very well for me.[/quote]

Have you tried combining BBB with FSL but using the opposite exercise (i.e. Press 5/3/1 / Bench BBB)? I was actually thinking about Paused FSL and opposite lift for BBB.

That is exactly what I do. I don’t know what you mean by pausing. I do the exercises as I would do them on meet day.

It’s something Jim wrote about in the new book. Basically hold the squat in the hole for a few seconds, hold the bench / ohp at the bottom of the eccentric movement for a few seconds. If you’re competing it’s probably something you already do.

Id suggest that you pick your assistance lifts to hit weak areas of your body since you seem to be worried about bodybuilding type goals. If you have shitty legs do a higher frequency leg split or more back off sets. Frst set last or pyramid plus some easier stuff in the rep range of 8-15, up to 20 maybe some days on squats. If you have a crap chest, more dumbbell work, weak shoulders… Etc. you will or should probably back off your stronger body parts a bit so you can focus on weak areas while still increasing your main lifts without burning out.

I gained some good mass with the boring but big 3 month challenge.
Went from 78kg to 83kg within these 3 months.
The only thing I personally dont like is that you really emphasize your front delts an chest like that.
I did a ton of rows and all but I believe if you constantly hammer away your 531 and 5x10 sets of your main lifts then it becomes tricky to keep your upper back and rear delts up to par…

Maybe you guys have some ideas how to avoid this

That’s just my 0.02$ about this issue

Eat! 100% people don’t eat enough.

[quote]Ps3_zocker wrote:
I gained some good mass with the boring but big 3 month challenge.
Went from 78kg to 83kg within these 3 months.
The only thing I personally dont like is that you really emphasize your front delts an chest like that.
I did a ton of rows and all but I believe if you constantly hammer away your 531 and 5x10 sets of your main lifts then it becomes tricky to keep your upper back and rear delts up to par…

Maybe you guys have some ideas how to avoid this

That’s just my 0.02$ about this issue [/quote]

When you do Chin-Ups or high-volume rows (like 5x10) do you find your lats and rear-delts lagging? Assuming you do some kind of upper back work each upper body session. Maybe even doing a couple sets of pull-ups / chin-ups on DL day?

Just do some face pulls or band pull-aparts - takes a couple short minutes to do 100 reps

Jim- thanks for your insight. I’m working with a friend on food intake currently (increasing it), and I personally love face pulls. They’re one of my favorite exercises.

As for my workouts- yesterday was my bench day. I’m doing the 3/5/1 strength phase template. I followed this with dips, pull ups, chest supported rows, and curls. Can anyone elaborate more on Dave Tate’s periodization bible for me? It’s in the books but I find it difficult to choose exercises. Let me know, and thanks for all of the responses so far!!

[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:

[quote]Ps3_zocker wrote:
I gained some good mass with the boring but big 3 month challenge.
Went from 78kg to 83kg within these 3 months.
The only thing I personally dont like is that you really emphasize your front delts an chest like that.
I did a ton of rows and all but I believe if you constantly hammer away your 531 and 5x10 sets of your main lifts then it becomes tricky to keep your upper back and rear delts up to par…

Maybe you guys have some ideas how to avoid this

That’s just my 0.02$ about this issue [/quote]

When you do Chin-Ups or high-volume rows (like 5x10) do you find your lats and rear-delts lagging? Assuming you do some kind of upper back work each upper body session. Maybe even doing a couple sets of pull-ups / chin-ups on DL day?
[/quote]

Yeah actually I even added 5 sets of rows before my 531 sets
Then I did some other kind of row and a pullup variation as assistance
The split was like an upper lower split - just like outlined in the bbb 3 mobth challenge

Jim, you’re 100% right about the eating part
I always was the kind of guy who was freaking out over extra clean food and stuff
Now I am enjoying a good burger or pizza postworkout, have some beers on the weekend and looj better than ever
Your statements about nutrition really convinced me so take my gains as your accomplishment