T Nation

5/3/1 and Bodybuilding, Backfiring?


#1

So my question is if i was to follow the 5/3/1 routine, while doing regular bodybuilding, would that get me no where?

FOR EXAMPLE;

MONDAY id do the first part of 5/3/1 for bench, which is 5x5. Would it be "backfiring" to keep doing my chest on monday after the 5x5, or should i workout another body part?

5x5 bench press, followed by raping and pilaging the triceps and chest from every other angle with all kinds of sets and reps.


#2

5/3/1 and typical bodybuilding programs are based on totally different principles and for totally different goals. Which principles do you believe meet your goals?


#3

Bodybuilding is my goal, but i would like to get stronger too. I know that 5/3/1 is designed for strength gaining, and that bodybuilding training is different but could one combine those two?


#4

[quote]HGHfoosball wrote:
MONDAY id do the first part of 5/3/1 for bench, which is 5x5.
[/quote]
Nope, it’s 3x5 in most of the templates.

[quote]
5x5 bench press, followed by raping and pilaging the triceps and chest from every other angle with all kinds of sets and reps.[/quote]
There are plenty of templates that will allow you to grow while sticking true to the principles of 5/3/1. Boring but big is the most popular example.

Again: 5/3/1 and traditional bodybuilding routines are based on totally different principles, you need to decide which you believe in and can commit to.


#5

You’re gonna have a bad time…


#6

Just google “531 and bodybuilding”. It will take you to an article on Jim Wendler’s website where he shows you how you can incorporate the 5/3/1 progression scheme into a bodybuilding plan.


#7

#8

I see nothing wrong with incorporating bodybuilding movements and principles after the main 5/3/1 sets. However, don’t forget that tons of volume on assistance work doesn’t necessarily mean that you will grow from it. Intensity has to be a part of your program, or there is no stimulus for growth.

For example, I did the 5/3/1 DC challenge for 12 weeks recently. The short version is that I pushed the last set of the 5/3/1 sets hard as hell, and then did either a widowmaker set for lower body, or a rest-pause set for upper body. Here is an example:

Bench, 5s week:

Set 1: 5 reps
Set 2: 5 reps
Set 3: 9 reps (1 short of failure)
Set 4 (with the first set weight) : 22 reps total from a rest-pause set

Then I did 3 sets of bodyweight dips to failure. Done. No more chest work that week. I didn’t need it, and I wouldn’t recover from it if I tried. I ate a lot during this 12-week process, and I grew a lot. That’s not a lot of volume on paper, but the intensity was very high.

Keep intensity in mind as you plan your program. The squat, bench, deadlift, and overhead press themselves provide plenty of growth when applied properly. Read this article about the DC challenge. If you hit this hard and eat, you will grow quite a bit.


#9

Joey - Personally, I favour intensity over volume too although each has its time/place.

Out of interest, how did you structure your own “rest-pause challenge” as I noted that 3xBW dips was not part of Jim’s version? Did you make any other changes?

Thanks


#10

[quote]tokon wrote:

[/quote]

This interests me. However, the only equipment I have for squat assistance work is the ab wheel. Any ideas on alternate movements? Lunges?


#11

[quote]tokon wrote:
Joey - Personally, I favour intensity over volume too although each has its time/place.

Out of interest, how did you structure your own “rest-pause challenge” as I noted that 3xBW dips was not part of Jim’s version? Did you make any other changes?

Thanks[/quote]

Here are some changes that I made to the DC challenge. Keep in mind that I didn’t change anything out of desire, but out of necessity for a disc issue that prevents me from grinding out high-rep deadlifts. If I was 100% healthy, I would do the program exactly as written.

All of my deadlift sets were capped at 3 no matter the week. Because of that, I frequently worked up to some heavy singles, but nothing that would tax me too hard.

I sometimes did the “widowmaker” for deadlift with a rack pull above the knee because it didn’t hurt like regular deads do. If rack pulls hurt that day, then I would do glute-ham raises paired with reverse hypers for a few sets of 10. I probably missed some of the benefits of the high-rep deads, but it was either that, or risk months of rehab from a disc flare up.

The dips I tossed in there for shoulder flexibility and because I like them. They probably didn’t add all that much to the program overall, but most importantly, they did not take away from the program.

Those were the only changes made. The rest was exactly what Jim wrote. He and I discussed some of the changes I made to make sure I wasn’t steering too far from the original idea.

I did 12 weeks total with one week off in the middle to rest after the first 6 weeks. If you try it, eat just as much on your off days as you do on your training days. This program will catch up to you and bury you if you don’t. My appetite waned a bit around week 8 and I had a hard time catching back up to the demands of the program. I firmly believe that this is the best 5/3/1 template for size and strength. The trade off is that it is probably the most brutal as well. I don’t recommend more than two 6-week cycles back to back.

Give it a shot. You won’t be disappointed!


#12

Thanks for the reply and recommendations Joey.


#13

Please read Joeys part of eating.


#14

“If you try it, eat just as much on your off days as you do on your training days. This program will catch up to you and bury you if you don’t. My appetite waned a bit around week 8 and I had a hard time catching back up to the demands of the program. I firmly believe that this is the best 5/3/1 template for size and strength. The trade off is that it is probably the most brutal as well. I don’t recommend more than two 6-week cycles back to back.”

This part?

I did and it registered, thanks!


#15

Yes. Too many queens eat like birds, lift accordingly and can’t do the math.