T Nation

4wk HCG Test Results Are In


#1

32 - year old male

So after a year of suffering low testosterone and borderline low LH and FSH with minimal results from using supplements and trying to correct lifestyle things I decided to run HCG for 4 weeks to see results.

Protocol: 500iu on MWF

Been on Armour for a year taking 60mg in AM and 30mg PM.

Also have started back on cyclic ketogenic diet ( 5 days really low carb and high fat) followed with 2 days of carb loading. I always use this to lean up. In two weeks dropped 2% bodyfat. Got a long ways to go. In past gets me from mids 20 to upper single digitis in body fat.

Supplements Used during protocol:
Alpha GPC 300mg upon awakening.
DIM 100mg AM AND PM
DHEA 50mg AM
Vit. D 5000iu day now going to 25K iu twice a week as scores were low.
Multi vit/min
12 grams of fish oil day (carlson)
Green Tea 500mg and Niacin 100mg before workout.
Betain HCL one capsule with each major meal.
Zinc and Mag before bed.
ALA 300mg at night meal.
During carb phase I take: Cinnamon and Fenugreek.

              12/07/10   03/17/11

Free T3 3.4 3.3
Free T4 1.3 1.39
TSH 0.6 2.18

Trig 76 62
Total Ch 210 247
HDL 49 45
LDL 146 190

Total Test 251 893
Free Test 50.2(35-155) 30.4 (9-30) - off the chart!
Prog 0.5 0.9
Estradiol 18(13-54) 43.9 (7.63-42.59) - off the chart
PSA 0.5 0.435
FSH 2.1 1.1
LH 2.9 1.3
DHEA -S 44(110-370) 432 (160-449)

Vit D was 38.3. Last summer when I took mega dosages of Vit D it was up in the mid-60s.

Other concerns ALT 104 (<42)
Albumin 5.1 (3.2-4.8)
WBC 4.45 (4.8-10.8)
ABS Neutrophils (2.04 (2.09-6.07)

So testosterone was up a good number, however estrogen and LDL was up alot as well. So the question is where do I go from here? Its great having high test levels but I have noticed being alot more emotional lately I guess from the estrogen. The LDL scares me that it raised as much as it did.

So the question is now where do I go from here?


#2

You need anastrozole, start with 1.0mg/week in divided doses. You should have been onto that issue.

When you get E2 near 22pg/ml, your weight/fat, mood, libido will be a better story.

I would have expected LH and FSH to be tracking towards zero.

Your DHEA might be leading to higher E2, happens with some guys, you could also try 25mg, then later when E2 is controlled and current DHEA-S is known we could make suggestions then.

ALT: any bruised or sore muscles at the time? Where was AST?

Were you dehydrated for labs?

hCG can drive high E2 levels for some, all the more with high doses, 250-300mg EOD is a replacement dose.

How old are you?

Note to others: hCG often does not work well for old guys, the testes cannot perform


#3

@KSman

Will get on that anastrozole.

LH AND FSH did drop.

I am going to 25mg of DHEA starting tomorrow.

Well I am 3rd week back into training. Mon and Tues I train hard and heavy while I still have glycogen in me. The test was done on Thursday. All I did Wednesday was light cardio.

I dont eat before labs but I usually drink at least a glass of water before lab work. I woke up at 6AM that morning but blood work was not until 745am on an empty stomach.

I will decrease my HCG dosage to half (250 range). Another guy on another board said that lowering dosage should bring me back within range of E2 levels.

I am 32 years old.


#4

You may need more hCG than that for T levels. With the anastrozole on board, the situation will be different. However, note that high LH or hCG drives T-->E2 inside the testes and anastrozole cannot touch that.


#5

@KSMAN

I had some elevated liver numbers.

I have read that anastrozole can cause liver problems.

I also am on DHEA which I also just read can cause liver problems.

Should I switch DHEA to 7-keto. I havent been able to find any literature on it having a negative side effect on liver function.

Should I run some milk thistle or other supplement to aid with the liver?


#6

DHEA does not cause liver problems and is part of your body. In theory, if the liver is not well, anything that is processes will create some stress. No one here has reported increase liver enzymes from introduction of TRT let alone anastrozole.

Again, AST/ALT are not liver specific. These can be elevated from sore muscles, bruised muscles and heart attack [more muscle]. You need to know that that is not the cause. My wife spiked AST/ALT by training multiple muscle groups to soreness. Anyone training needs to be suspect about the AST/ALT liver implications. Liver supplements can't do any harm. If ALT/AST are up from no-pain-no-gain, those supplements would not reduce those muscle specific sources. More muscle mass means more ALT/AST, thus higher for males than females and higher for body building.

Have not read anything about anastrozole and liver issues. Where did you find that? There are no studies for men on low dose anastrozole. Results from women who have breast cancer could be misleading. The reports of liver issues with those women does not mean that anastrozole is a primary cause of any liver conditions. These women have been on radiation, chemo, surgery, anesthesia, pain meds etc. Most symptoms reported by women are from the extremely low E2 levels that are created. And there can be a general decline from low E levels and that can change bodily function. Note that some of these women have had longer term health issues, including too much alcohol and various prescription meds. Then some will take meds for depression.

The initial safety trials would have tested on health female volunteers. Clinical studies would involve women with the complexities cited above. Note that if one of the women fell and broke her wrist during the study, there would be one report under 'side effects' of a bone fracture. Events are reported, cause and effect is not determined.

If you can't find a keto-7 & liver concern, be happy.