T Nation

4th Cycle - Please Critique

I came off a 10 week tren ace/test e/d-bol cycle about 3 months ago and am going to start my 4th cycle. I’m about 260 pounds and would like to get back up to 270 but my primary goal is strength gain. 36, been lifting for over 20 years, 18 of them naturally.

Proposed cycle:

Test prop weeks 1-8 100mg/ed
d-bol weeks 1-4 40mg/ed
tren ace weeks 3-7 50mg/ed
aromasin weeks 1-10 10mg/ed
hcg weeks 4-10 250ius/e3d
nolva weeks 11-14 40mg/day

I also have masteron on hand but don’t know if I should incorporate it. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

I say save the mast.

You should be getting plenty from the test/tren/dbol.

Throw anything else on top, especially mast, and its going to have almost no effect.

Id like to see the tren run longer, but I guess some guys dont handle the sides well.

AI and even a little HCG for a week or so during the PCT tapering down is a great thing, PCT with just nolva is a mistake in my opinion.

I run the AI the entire PCT, drop the HCG after a week and a half or so, and run the nolva throughout.

Mike if your primary goal is strength gain then you’ll want to find a greater supply of tren and dbol; enough for say 6 weeks of each. Then you’ll want to run them concurrently.

Also I’ve found with dbol taking it all [in your case all 40mg] 45 minutes before you train is optimal. Common practice is divided doses I know because of dbol’s 4-8 hour half life depending who you believe. But your injectables are for consist levels. Use the dbol for training enhancement. Trust me. Take it all pre training and you will feel the difference. I experimented with this myself on my last cycle which Im in stasis mode now on. It was worth it.
Be weary though as different people have different maximal dbol dose tolerances. I found my ceiling to be 50mg personally. Also be mindful that certain bodyparts pump almost too much on high-all-at-once dbol doses.

I don’t rate Mast and tren together… they are just too similar and even if you use 700mg of Mast with 3-500mg of Tren, you just wouldn’t know it.

I like EITHER Mast or Tren these days… and if it want to lose fat/improve my composition, then i use Tren - otherwise i find high dose Masteron to be as effective, more tolerable and safer (androgenically - if that is a word).

[quote]Westclock wrote:
I say save the mast.

You should be getting plenty from the test/tren/dbol.

Throw anything else on top, especially mast, and its going to have almost no effect.

Id like to see the tren run longer, but I guess some guys dont handle the sides well.

AI and even a little HCG for a week or so during the PCT tapering down is a great thing, PCT with just nolva is a mistake in my opinion.

I run the AI the entire PCT, drop the HCG after a week and a half or so, and run the nolva throughout.[/quote]

so you would extend the hcg and/or aromasin through week 12 an then just nolva for 2 weeks?

[quote]saps wrote:
Mike if your primary goal is strength gain then you’ll want to find a greater supply of tren and dbol; enough for say 6 weeks of each. Then you’ll want to run them concurrently.

Also I’ve found with dbol taking it all [in your case all 40mg] 45 minutes before you train is optimal. Common practice is divided doses I know because of dbol’s 4-8 hour half life depending who you believe. But your injectables are for consist levels. Use the dbol for training enhancement. Trust me. Take it all pre training and you will feel the difference. I experimented with this myself on my last cycle which Im in stasis mode now on. It was worth it.
Be weary though as different people have different maximal dbol dose tolerances. I found my ceiling to be 50mg personally. Also be mindful that certain bodyparts pump almost too much on high-all-at-once dbol doses.[/quote]

Ok, then I’ll probably do the tren ace from weeks 3-8 and do the dbol during those weeks as well. I just had some rough sides with tren the last time and 5 weeks was pretty much all I could take.

Why dont you do a 6 week cycle?

Wk1-6 Test P 700mg
Wk1-6 Tren A 350mg
Wk1-6 Dbol 280mg

[quote]J-J wrote:
Why dont you do a 6 week cycle?

Wk1-6 Test P 700mg
Wk1-6 Tren A 350mg
Wk1-6 Dbol 280mg[/quote]

I suppose I could. I’ve always done 8 to 10 week cycles. Why do you prefer 6 week cycles?

Why do i like 6 week cycles…?

Mostly because you only like to run Tren for around that, because you have short esters and because you are running an oral! lol

I personally like 6 weeks because they are 50% longer than 4 weeks but only 25% shorter than 8…

What i mean by this is that you can get a lot done in 6 weeks, it is plenty long enough yet short enough too.

Long enough to add a stone (14lbs) yet short enough to allow for a fast recovery and a quick repeat.

That said, it depends on the person and their goal… for dropping to show condition for example, a standalone 6 week cycle would be all but pointless.

Basically, I like 6 weeks at the moment and that is because they suit ME.

It isn’t the case that i recommend them to others based on that fact.

If you don’t mind me asking but what kind of sides did u have with the tren ace?

[quote]Mike823 wrote:
saps wrote:
Mike if your primary goal is strength gain then you’ll want to find a greater supply of tren and dbol; enough for say 6 weeks of each. Then you’ll want to run them concurrently.

Also I’ve found with dbol taking it all [in your case all 40mg] 45 minutes before you train is optimal. Common practice is divided doses I know because of dbol’s 4-8 hour half life depending who you believe. But your injectables are for consist levels. Use the dbol for training enhancement. Trust me. Take it all pre training and you will feel the difference. I experimented with this myself on my last cycle which Im in stasis mode now on. It was worth it.
Be weary though as different people have different maximal dbol dose tolerances. I found my ceiling to be 50mg personally. Also be mindful that certain bodyparts pump almost too much on high-all-at-once dbol doses.

Ok, then I’ll probably do the tren ace from weeks 3-8 and do the dbol during those weeks as well. I just had some rough sides with tren the last time and 5 weeks was pretty much all I could take.
[/quote]

Cortes mentioned this somewhere. Some guys after 5-6 weeks begin [to an extent] to adapt and adjust to the sides making them proportionally milder. Rarely do you find guys getting cumulatively worse the longer they are on tren. The majority seem to get the sides they get and maintain the level of discomfort from the breathing or the sweating or whatever hits them. But having finally run tren for a solid and straight 10 weeks this summer I can say week 7-10 were not as brutal as weeks 3-5 for instance. They weren’t all sunshine and roses either but I did to a small degree adapt and adjust

[quote]blades wrote:
If you don’t mind me asking but what kind of sides did u have with the tren ace?[/quote]

endurance was crap, some sleep issues, often felt like my blood pressure was out of control. crap endurance was the worst though.

[quote]Mike823 wrote:
Westclock wrote:
I say save the mast.

You should be getting plenty from the test/tren/dbol.

Throw anything else on top, especially mast, and its going to have almost no effect.

Id like to see the tren run longer, but I guess some guys dont handle the sides well.

AI and even a little HCG for a week or so during the PCT tapering down is a great thing, PCT with just nolva is a mistake in my opinion.

I run the AI the entire PCT, drop the HCG after a week and a half or so, and run the nolva throughout.

so you would extend the hcg and/or aromasin through week 12 an then just nolva for 2 weeks?

[/quote]

I would extend the HCG till week 12, run the aromasin tapering down until the end of the PCT.

Ending with a very low dose that you quit as soon as the PCT ends.

[quote]Mike823 wrote:
I came off a 10 week tren ace/test e/d-bol cycle about 3 months ago and am going to start my 4th cycle. I’m about 260 pounds and would like to get back up to 270 but my primary goal is strength gain. 36, been lifting for over 20 years, 18 of them naturally.

Proposed cycle:

Test prop weeks 1-8 100mg/ed
d-bol weeks 1-4 40mg/ed
tren ace weeks 3-7 50mg/ed
aromasin weeks 1-10 10mg/ed
hcg weeks 4-10 250ius/e3d
nolva weeks 11-14 40mg/day

I also have masteron on hand but don’t know if I should incorporate it. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.[/quote]

Ok, here’s the modified cycle:

test prop weeks 1-8 100mg/ed
tren ace weeks 1-6 50mg/ed
b-bol weeks 1-4 40mg/ed
winny weeks 7-10 50mg/ed
hcg weeks 4-12 250ius/e3d
aromasin weeks 1-11 10/mg ed tapering down as I transition into nolva
nolva weeks 11-14 40mg/ed

comments?

I think it is worse… pointlessly complex and involved.

4 steroids (assuming b-bol is a steroid ;p) may seen ‘necessary’ to you as this is your fourth cycle… but if it worked like that then i would be using maybe 20?

Point is, do all those steroids do something? Will they all play a part? Will you notice effects from each? Are they dosed at specific amounts for specific reasons? I have on hand:

Masteron
Trenbolone
Testosterone
Stanazolol
Oxymetholone
Dianabol
Nandrolone

My next cycle i begin tomorrow, i will frontload and i will be running:

Test’rone 700mg/wk
Tren’lone 350mg/wk

That’s it.

I am not saying you never need to use 4 drugs, or that you never need to go above 1g/wk… of course you may… but IMHO, the only time 4 AAS are warranted are when you are requiring something very special, a meet or a show maybe…

1-3 steroids is AMPLE for the majority of posters here.

So, if you need vascularity, hardness, aggression, dryness, lipolysis, massive anabolism due to extremely catabolic fat burners being used… then sure use multiple compounds.

If you want to drop some fat to reveal a lean muscular physique, then 1-3 steroid compounds will be ample.

JMO

Just to add… your primary goal is strength and your secondary goal is to look half solid?

I doubt you will ever need anything other than Test, Tren and maybe occasionally Dbol or Drol.

[quote]J-J wrote:
I think it is worse… pointlessly complex and involved.

4 steroids (assuming b-bol is a steroid ;p) may seen ‘necessary’ to you as this is your fourth cycle… but if it worked like that then i would be using maybe 20?

Point is, do all those steroids do something? Will they all play a part? Will you notice effects from each? Are they dosed at specific amounts for specific reasons? I have on hand:

Masteron
Trenbolone
Testosterone
Stanazolol
Oxymetholone
Dianabol
Nandrolone

My next cycle i begin tomorrow, i will frontload and i will be running:

Test’rone 700mg/wk
Tren’lone 350mg/wk

That’s it.

I am not saying you never need to use 4 drugs, or that you never need to go above 1g/wk… of course you may… but IMHO, the only time 4 AAS are warranted are when you are requiring something very special, a meet or a show maybe…

1-3 steroids is AMPLE for the majority of posters here.

So, if you need vascularity, hardness, aggression, dryness, lipolysis, massive anabolism due to extremely catabolic fat burners being used… then sure use multiple compounds.

If you want to drop some fat to reveal a lean muscular physique, then 1-3 steroid compounds will be ample.

JMO[/quote]

All good points. I’ll probably drop the winny. thanks.

bump

any additional critiques?