T Nation

4th Cycle Critique

Pharma
#1

Hey guys, coming around to a summer cycle in July and thinking about running it like this. I’ve noticed that for me, if I taper up slowly in beginning and end, it is much easier for me to recover. In fact when I ran Test and EQ on cycle #2, It took about 2 weeks AFTER PCT to really start feeling 75% normal.

However, my last cycle which was summer 2012, I did a similar test and tren cycle and by the time pct was over, I was feeling great. Lost 5 lbs at most, and kept all the rest of the weight I gained.

Any advice on the following cycle?

Week 1-2 250mg test

Week 3-4 500mg test

Week 5-15 500mg test, 100mg tren every other day

Week 16 250mg test, 100mg tren every other day
Week 17 250mg test

AI on hand as usual, but high estro has not been a problem for me past 3 times. To be safe I usually do .25mg eod.

PCT 2 weeks after last pin:
Nolva: 40/40/20/20
Clomid: 70/70/35/35

Mr. Walkway, what’s your opinion?

#2

I would not taper up or taper down to be honest. Everyone feels differently through pct. I personally was stronger in week 3 of pct than I was on cycle, but being covered in acne and the mood swings made it difficult to bear.

I would strongly suggest running a 10 week cycle pinning test e EOD, preferably ED this will raise levels faster and keep them more stable

tren 7-12 50-100ED as your test ester clears

pct 2-2.5 weeks after your last shot of test E

tapering down makes no sense especially if you are running tren alongside your test. You are just as shut down with 250mg test + 100mg tren as you are with 1g test IIRC.

#3

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
I would not taper up or taper down to be honest. Everyone feels differently through pct. I personally was stronger in week 3 of pct than I was on cycle, but being covered in acne and the mood swings made it difficult to bear.

I would strongly suggest running a 10 week cycle pinning test e EOD, preferably ED this will raise levels faster and keep them more stable

tren 7-12 50-100ED as your test ester clears

pct 2-2.5 weeks after your last shot of test E

tapering down makes no sense especially if you are running tren alongside your test. You are just as shut down with 250mg test + 100mg tren as you are with 1g test IIRC.

make certain that you run your AI… do NOT “have it on hand, just in case”[/quote]

Yah, I felt a lot stronger in week 2 of pct in my last cycle. Acne was a huge problem first 2 times, but 10mg accutane every 3 days helped.

You say do test e shots every other day? Do you pin intramuscular or sub q personally? I’m just thinking about pinning almost everyday, with 2 substances, and not looking forward to being a pin cushion.

#4

I use slin pins

27g 1/2" can’t even feel them. Some goes subq, most goes intramuscular…

slin pins are SO much better…

#5

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
I use slin pins

27g 1/2" can’t even feel them. Some goes subq, most goes intramuscular…

slin pins are SO much better… [/quote]

Cool, thanks a lot man, definitely give this a shot next cycle in summer.

#6

[quote]ThurmonMermon wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
I use slin pins

27g 1/2" can’t even feel them. Some goes subq, most goes intramuscular…

slin pins are SO much better… [/quote]

Cool, thanks a lot man, definitely give this a shot next cycle in summer. [/quote]

make sure you draw with a larger gauge pin and backload your slin pins…

it amazes me that some people actually don’t understand this… lol

#7

Personally I found tapering at the end helped a lot with acne during pct.

#8

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]ThurmonMermon wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
I use slin pins

27g 1/2" can’t even feel them. Some goes subq, most goes intramuscular…

slin pins are SO much better… [/quote]

Cool, thanks a lot man, definitely give this a shot next cycle in summer. [/quote]

make sure you draw with a larger gauge pin and backload your slin pins…

it amazes me that some people actually don’t understand this… lol[/quote]

Haha yah, I have watched 2 vids already and backloading looks real simple.

Do you also do tren ace sub q?

#9

I do not pin subq personally

tren ace can be pinned subq yes

#10

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
I would not taper up or taper down to be honest. Everyone feels differently through pct. I personally was stronger in week 3 of pct than I was on cycle, but being covered in acne and the mood swings made it difficult to bear.

I would strongly suggest running a 10 week cycle pinning test e EOD, preferably ED this will raise levels faster and keep them more stable

tren 7-12 50-100ED as your test ester clears

pct 2-2.5 weeks after your last shot of test E

tapering down makes no sense especially if you are running tren alongside your test. You are just as shut down with 250mg test + 100mg tren as you are with 1g test IIRC.[/quote]

The point of tapering is not so that your HPTA can kick-in incrementally while you’re tapering down(unless you’re running something similar to a statis-taper in which arguably it does). The point is to allow the supralogical levels of test to lower more slowly so that you can more easily maintain the yielded gains. Also, by allowing testosterone and estrogen to lower together during the taper, you will then have a test-E2 ratio heading into PCT so that you don’t get hit with high estradiol related sides (acne, gyno).

EDIT: @OP : If you had lost a lot of the gains you made on your last cycle, I would say go ahead with your Taper-Up and the beginning, however, by the sounds of it that is not the case. Since you’re only going to be running 500mg/w anyway, might as well just start it there.

#11

[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
I would not taper up or taper down to be honest. Everyone feels differently through pct. I personally was stronger in week 3 of pct than I was on cycle, but being covered in acne and the mood swings made it difficult to bear.

I would strongly suggest running a 10 week cycle pinning test e EOD, preferably ED this will raise levels faster and keep them more stable

tren 7-12 50-100ED as your test ester clears

pct 2-2.5 weeks after your last shot of test E

tapering down makes no sense especially if you are running tren alongside your test. You are just as shut down with 250mg test + 100mg tren as you are with 1g test IIRC.[/quote]

The point of tapering is not so that your HPTA can kick-in incrementally while you’re tapering down(unless you’re running something similar to a statis-taper in which arguably it does). The point is to allow the supralogical levels of test to lower more slowly so that you can more easily maintain the yielded gains. Also, by allowing testosterone and estrogen to lower together during the taper, you will then have a test-E2 ratio heading into PCT so that you don’t get hit with high estradiol related sides (acne, gyno).

[/quote]

that makes sense, but it’s not how it goes…