T Nation

495 DL Rant.

I just got 495 RDL with a belt. I am sooo dam happy. 5 more pounds and I have my 3/4/5 Combo!!! I cant with till next week and post vids.

WHOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOO.

/end rant.

Congrats on being ever so close! I was just thinking about the 3/4/5 combo and how long (years?) it is going to take to get my deadlift up that high.


.

congrats OP, 3-4-5 is a big milestone.

[quote]Theta1591 wrote:
Congrats on being ever so close! I was just thinking about the 3/4/5 combo and how long (years?) it is going to take to get my deadlift up that high.[/quote]

How far from 500 can you be that it will take years to get? And if you truly are that far away… what was your post about in the steroid forum asking

[quote]Theta1591 wrote:
Do any of the research sites provide in oral form, or is everything strictly liquid?[/quote]

sheesh

[quote]LiftSmart wrote:
.[/quote]

Its not nice to spit on people. lol

How long do you think this takes to achieve for an average individual who trains hard?

My guess is 3-4 years, it took me 2 years to get 2.5/3/4, I’m thinking ill need another 1.5 years to get 3/4/5 using sheiko cycles

Am I kidding myself?

[quote]schultzie wrote:
How long do you think this takes to achieve for an average individual who trains hard?

My guess is 3-4 years, it took me 2 years to get 2.5/3/4, I’m thinking ill need another 1.5 years to get 3/4/5 using sheiko cycles

Am I kidding myself?[/quote]

Theres allot of people who can achieve a 300 bench, 400 squat, and 500 deadlift within a year. The 400 squat and 500 deadlift being the easiest numbers to hit for most people.

if sheiko cycles are giving you gains that slow I wouldnt do them anymore. Well they arent slow gains, but at your stage in training they are slow gains.

100lbs on your squat could be a few weeks of smolov, 100 on your deadlift could be just having got your legs stronger from smolov and doing some assistance work. 50lbs on your bench can come by almost surprise.

Look up the blast your bench program, I put 40lbs on my bench 2 times in 3 weeks time. And have used it many other times for 20-30lb gains easily. Only once did I not make a 20+lb strength gain in 3 weeks and that was because I used the program almost back to back with each other.

It depends where you start really.

I’ve been lifting on and off for the last 3 years, but when I started I was 15 years old and 55kgs at 5"10. Now I’m 85kgs, getting close to 3/4/5(265/375/530).

I bet if a person started when they were 25 it wouldn’t take more than 2 years to reach.

[quote]Mega Newb wrote:
schultzie wrote:
How long do you think this takes to achieve for an average individual who trains hard?

My guess is 3-4 years, it took me 2 years to get 2.5/3/4, I’m thinking ill need another 1.5 years to get 3/4/5 using sheiko cycles

Am I kidding myself?

Theres allot of people who can achieve a 300 bench, 400 squat, and 500 deadlift within a year. The 400 squat and 500 deadlift being the easiest numbers to hit for most people.

if sheiko cycles are giving you gains that slow I wouldnt do them anymore. Well they arent slow gains, but at your stage in training they are slow gains.

100lbs on your squat could be a few weeks of smolov, 100 on your deadlift could be just having got your legs stronger from smolov and doing some assistance work. 50lbs on your bench can come by almost surprise.

Look up the blast your bench program, I put 40lbs on my bench 2 times in 3 weeks time. And have used it many other times for 20-30lb gains easily. Only once did I not make a 20+lb strength gain in 3 weeks and that was because I used the program almost back to back with each other.

[/quote]

so you are saying that i’m better off doing separate cycles for each lift?

[quote]schultzie wrote:
Mega Newb wrote:
schultzie wrote:
How long do you think this takes to achieve for an average individual who trains hard?

My guess is 3-4 years, it took me 2 years to get 2.5/3/4, I’m thinking ill need another 1.5 years to get 3/4/5 using sheiko cycles

Am I kidding myself?

Theres allot of people who can achieve a 300 bench, 400 squat, and 500 deadlift within a year. The 400 squat and 500 deadlift being the easiest numbers to hit for most people.

if sheiko cycles are giving you gains that slow I wouldnt do them anymore. Well they arent slow gains, but at your stage in training they are slow gains.

100lbs on your squat could be a few weeks of smolov, 100 on your deadlift could be just having got your legs stronger from smolov and doing some assistance work. 50lbs on your bench can come by almost surprise.

Look up the blast your bench program, I put 40lbs on my bench 2 times in 3 weeks time. And have used it many other times for 20-30lb gains easily. Only once did I not make a 20+lb strength gain in 3 weeks and that was because I used the program almost back to back with each other.

so you are saying that i’m better off doing separate cycles for each lift?
[/quote]

no, your better off doing what gives you the best gains.

if sheiko gives you 50lbs a year on your squat and deadlift, where as smolov can give you 100lbs in a matter of weeks… I know which one I would do if I wanted to improve my lifts as fast as possible.

Same goes for bench, allot of people set them selves short on the kind of gains they can make. And they do this because they base their progress goals on the progress they have already been making. Im starting to think that perhaps to many people just follow set programs and never learn how to train without one and listen to their body. So they end up not making gains as good as they could have.

The human body is a complex thing, I dont know any way to write down a set program that will give the best gains possible because you never know how your going to feel, or what your going to need to take your self to the next level, until your in the gym during the workout.

Mega,

I agree with your assessments about programs, selling yourself short, not working hard enough, etc.

But really, where are all of these people gaining 100 pounds on their squat in a few weeks of smolov?

100 pounds on your deadlift and squat in a year and a half is certainly not amazing at an intermediate level but it’s decent, and is very good at an advanced level, and nothing to sneeze at either way.

I think you are a great poster and give very good insight but I also think you might generalize from your own experiences too much sometimes. Look, you are a MONSTER who has preposterously sick genetics, is VERY young, and has put on a huge amount of weight while making your gains. Not everyone can put 40 pounds on their bench in 3 weeks. It doesn’t matter how hard you work, that’s what that is, elite genetics. A very small percent of people are even capable of that with chemical assistance. The guy you are responding to never said how long he’d been running the Sheiko programs, how much weight he had gained, or anything related. How would he know which program would give him the best gains? He would need to give a much more detailed breakdown of his training and training history and all other details, and the best person to really make the assessment might be a coach with years and years of experience watching athletes progress.

In reality, just assuming it will take that long to reach his goals, I agree with your completely that the main issue is probably in his head. Selling yourself short and not going for the one, so to speak.

My point is, I agree with the spirit of your posts but I would be wary of holding people to an unrealistic standard of gains. Most people, myself included, fall into the trap of worrying about tweaking their shit way too often instead of just going in and working hard day and and day out- like you do! There certainly might be some things he could tweak or is flat out doing wrong and could be making better gains with, and his program might not even be right for him, but you aren’t helping anyone by telling them you put 40 pounds on your bench twice in 3 weeks and 100 on your squat in a month etc and that they might do the same, because for the vast, vast majority of people that just isn’t possible, and they are better off fixing what’s wrong in their mentality and how hard they hit the gym and not looking for a new program or fix. Which I’m sure you can see the value in since from what I’ve seen reading your log that’s your exact plan! get in there, do what feels right, work hard as hell and keep pushing yourself.

Once again, no disrespect intended. I have mad, mad respect for your strength, attitude, work ethic.

Just my observation and take on this. Personally, I wish I had stuck to some set plans in the recent past, whether they be pre-conceived programs or my own attempt at figuring out what works best for me, instead of flip flopping around and trying to find the holy grail of training when it’s really all in what you bring to the weight room. I know I would be stronger.

[quote]Mega Newb wrote:
schultzie wrote:
Mega Newb wrote:
schultzie wrote:
How long do you think this takes to achieve for an average individual who trains hard?

My guess is 3-4 years, it took me 2 years to get 2.5/3/4, I’m thinking ill need another 1.5 years to get 3/4/5 using sheiko cycles

Am I kidding myself?

Theres allot of people who can achieve a 300 bench, 400 squat, and 500 deadlift within a year. The 400 squat and 500 deadlift being the easiest numbers to hit for most people.

if sheiko cycles are giving you gains that slow I wouldnt do them anymore. Well they arent slow gains, but at your stage in training they are slow gains.

100lbs on your squat could be a few weeks of smolov, 100 on your deadlift could be just having got your legs stronger from smolov and doing some assistance work. 50lbs on your bench can come by almost surprise.

Look up the blast your bench program, I put 40lbs on my bench 2 times in 3 weeks time. And have used it many other times for 20-30lb gains easily. Only once did I not make a 20+lb strength gain in 3 weeks and that was because I used the program almost back to back with each other.

so you are saying that i’m better off doing separate cycles for each lift?

no, your better off doing what gives you the best gains.

if sheiko gives you 50lbs a year on your squat and deadlift, where as smolov can give you 100lbs in a matter of weeks… I know which one I would do if I wanted to improve my lifts as fast as possible.

Same goes for bench, allot of people set them selves short on the kind of gains they can make. And they do this because they base their progress goals on the progress they have already been making. Im starting to think that perhaps to many people just follow set programs and never learn how to train without one and listen to their body. So they end up not making gains as good as they could have.

The human body is a complex thing, I dont know any way to write down a set program that will give the best gains possible because you never know how your going to feel, or what your going to need to take your self to the next level, until your in the gym during the workout.

[/quote]

Ah true, I’ve only done one cycle of #29, and just finished a week of 37. I think ill finish this 37, and do another cycle with a week off between then test my maxes. I have to give things an honest effort to see what works for me and what doesn’t

just to clarify, i feel i haven’t grinded enough sheiko cycles and gotten used to the volume etc to make an educated decision whether or not it works for me.

This is where many beginners can mess up, the lure of making those big number jumps like back when you started is sometimes too great to stick to a program, then you end up spinning your wheels and getting nowhere, specializing in nothing, and getting frustrated.

i know i was around the 185 bench/275squat/315 deadlift mark

[quote]actionjeff wrote:
Mega,

I agree with your assessments about programs, selling yourself short, not working hard enough, etc.

But really, where are all of these people gaining 100 pounds on their squat in a few weeks of smolov?

100 pounds on your deadlift and squat in a year and a half is certainly not amazing at an intermediate level but it’s decent, and is very good at an advanced level, and nothing to sneeze at either way.

I think you are a great poster and give very good insight but I also think you might generalize from your own experiences too much sometimes. Look, you are a MONSTER who has preposterously sick genetics, is VERY young, and has put on a huge amount of weight while making your gains. Not everyone can put 40 pounds on their bench in 3 weeks. It doesn’t matter how hard you work, that’s what that is, elite genetics. A very small percent of people are even capable of that with chemical assistance. The guy you are responding to never said how long he’d been running the Sheiko programs, how much weight he had gained, or anything related. How would he know which program would give him the best gains? He would need to give a much more detailed breakdown of his training and training history and all other details, and the best person to really make the assessment might be a coach with years and years of experience watching athletes progress.

In reality, just assuming it will take that long to reach his goals, I agree with your completely that the main issue is probably in his head. Selling yourself short and not going for the one, so to speak.

My point is, I agree with the spirit of your posts but I would be wary of holding people to an unrealistic standard of gains. Most people, myself included, fall into the trap of worrying about tweaking their shit way too often instead of just going in and working hard day and and day out- like you do! There certainly might be some things he could tweak or is flat out doing wrong and could be making better gains with, and his program might not even be right for him, but you aren’t helping anyone by telling them you put 40 pounds on your bench twice in 3 weeks and 100 on your squat in a month etc and that they might do the same, because for the vast, vast majority of people that just isn’t possible, and they are better off fixing what’s wrong in their mentality and how hard they hit the gym and not looking for a new program or fix. Which I’m sure you can see the value in since from what I’ve seen reading your log that’s your exact plan! get in there, do what feels right, work hard as hell and keep pushing yourself.

Once again, no disrespect intended. I have mad, mad respect for your strength, attitude, work ethic.

Just my observation and take on this. Personally, I wish I had stuck to some set plans in the recent past, whether they be pre-conceived programs or my own attempt at figuring out what works best for me, instead of flip flopping around and trying to find the holy grail of training when it’s really all in what you bring to the weight room. I know I would be stronger. [/quote]

I see what your saying, and agree that perhaps I shouldnt think everyone should be able to make the same gains that I have, because everyone is different.

But I have also helped at least 5 people that I know of make huge jumps in strength in pretty short ammounts of time. There is probably more than 5 people because I have helped a shit load of people who haven’t kept in touch. But 5 that I know of for sure.

Im convinced its mostly my style of training that gives me the gains I have made.

I would love to find someone with a around 315 squat who had solid form and a video camera and a work ethic who would be willing to give me say 10 weeks to put as much weight on their squat as I could. I think I could take them to 500lbs with knee wraps and a good belt if they werent afraid of weight gain. But maybe Im just completley wrong and have bad ass lifting genetics. I dont know, 5 random people isnt enough to prove much I suppose.

maybe some time Il find someone online or at my gym and il see how strong I can get him in a short ammount of time, that way I can use them as a example.

also, as far as the 40lbs in 3 weeks bench program thing.

my brother has also had the same results, as have 2 guys who just ran the program online.

one went from 305x2 to 350 I believe, and the other went from 295x2 to 315x3 I believe and he is still doing the program.

But I dont keep a chart on how they are doing so I could be off on those numbers, or have them switched up or something like that.

well I guess I’ll have to give that bench p-rogram a try sometime, lol

The getting a guy strong thing really sounds like an aweesome idea. I’m sure if you could find the right motivated person and get that on youtube you would get a ton of views and interest.

Most people out there just grinding out their 10 rep bench twice a week, barely putting on any weight or hoping they are slowly leaning out could really use a slap in the face to get back to reality if they ever want any good gains.

[quote]actionjeff wrote:
well I guess I’ll have to give that bench p-rogram a try sometime, lol

The getting a guy strong thing really sounds like an aweesome idea. I’m sure if you could find the right motivated person and get that on youtube you would get a ton of views and interest.

Most people out there just grinding out their 10 rep bench twice a week, barely putting on any weight or hoping they are slowly leaning out could really use a slap in the face to get back to reality if they ever want any good gains.
[/quote]

there was one guy who I was training

I think he started with a 275 squat and 375 deadlift and ended up with a 275x5-10 squat and 450+ deadlift in around 1-2 months. Then he started smolov and I could no longer help him because that programs hard enough as it is.

But I barley helped that guy at all, just wrote him the most basic program in the world and it worked great for him.

I think I just had him do 1 set of squats and 1 set of deads a week along with assistance work. But he would go to absolute death failure on each set, and would add 20lbs a workout to everything.

not surprisingly, allot of peoples missing link is simply effort…

[quote]Mega Newb wrote:
actionjeff wrote:
well I guess I’ll have to give that bench p-rogram a try sometime, lol

The getting a guy strong thing really sounds like an aweesome idea. I’m sure if you could find the right motivated person and get that on youtube you would get a ton of views and interest.

Most people out there just grinding out their 10 rep bench twice a week, barely putting on any weight or hoping they are slowly leaning out could really use a slap in the face to get back to reality if they ever want any good gains.

there was one guy who I was training

I think he started with a 275 squat and 375 deadlift and ended up with a 275x5-10 squat and 450+ deadlift in around 1-2 months. Then he started smolov and I could no longer help him because that programs hard enough as it is.

But I barley helped that guy at all, just wrote him the most basic program in the world and it worked great for him.

I think I just had him do 1 set of squats and 1 set of deads a week along with assistance work. But he would go to absolute death failure on each set, and would add 20lbs a workout to everything.

not surprisingly, allot of peoples missing link is simply effort…

[/quote]

Are these gains possible if you do sports?
Could you write me a program? :stuck_out_tongue: pretty please with cherry on top.

[quote]blazindave wrote:
Mega Newb wrote:
actionjeff wrote:
well I guess I’ll have to give that bench p-rogram a try sometime, lol

The getting a guy strong thing really sounds like an aweesome idea. I’m sure if you could find the right motivated person and get that on youtube you would get a ton of views and interest.

Most people out there just grinding out their 10 rep bench twice a week, barely putting on any weight or hoping they are slowly leaning out could really use a slap in the face to get back to reality if they ever want any good gains.

there was one guy who I was training

I think he started with a 275 squat and 375 deadlift and ended up with a 275x5-10 squat and 450+ deadlift in around 1-2 months. Then he started smolov and I could no longer help him because that programs hard enough as it is.

But I barley helped that guy at all, just wrote him the most basic program in the world and it worked great for him.

I think I just had him do 1 set of squats and 1 set of deads a week along with assistance work. But he would go to absolute death failure on each set, and would add 20lbs a workout to everything.

not surprisingly, allot of peoples missing link is simply effort…

Are these gains possible if you do sports?
Could you write me a program? :stuck_out_tongue: pretty please with cherry on top.

[/quote]

I dont know, I guess it would depend on the sport and how hard you train for it etc.

I would write you a squat program/coach you on it if
1: you had access to the gym every day(not that you would train every day, but you will need to be able to)
2: you agree to video tape all your heavy sets on leg day
3: were willing to bulk while you did the program, 1-2lbs a week
4: made a video log on here to log your progress etc
5: have the mental focus/power to train to absolute failure in compound lower body lifts.

I would also have to see some vids of your squat form/you training your squat before I could do to much. Just so I can judge what muscles youd need to bring up and maybe form issues etc. Also have to know your height, weight, training experience, max, rep max, age etc.

I have invested allot in a few people as far as helping them before and they all seem to drop off when shit gets hard. So if I dont personally know the person I ask for allot from people who ask for my help now.

Also this offer isnt to everyone, just one person to see how they make gains training like me.

someone gained 100 pounds on there bench with 9 weeks of training wow I am impressed