T Nation

48 Year Old... Iodine Replacement

Age 48
Height 6’2"
Weight 240
Waist 40
Body/facial hair… moderate hair on forearms, chest, and legs. Shave facial hair every 2 days. Could grow a tight beard in 2 weeks.

I carry fat in the mid section.
Overall health is good. Blood pressure normal. Had labrum repair surgery 18 months ago which hampered my excersise activity due to arthritic shoulder. Getting more strength and flexibility back now. Had a grade 3 varicocele repaired 8 months ago. Had the varicocele for about 2 months before surgery (nothing long term).

RX/OTC meloxicam 7.5 mg daily (shoulder), ibuprofen 600mg as needed (shoulder, usually once a week), ambien 10mg (sleep) nightly for 3 years, I work a swing shift and had a problem adjusting to different sleep patterns, was on Androgel 10g daily for 1 year. Testosterone levels were 224 before and 310 during treatment. Reason I went off the Androgel was I didn’t really feel any better and seemed to be a little more emotional at times while on it. I’ve been off it for 5 weeks.

My diet is not good. By that I mean fast food 3-4 times a week, Carbs consist of white bread, pizza, etc. and 1-2 servings of fruit a day. Drink 1-2 soft drinks a day.

Have no erectile problems, but libido is very low.

Lab Results as of 2/20/13
TSH 1.870 Range 0.450-4.500
T4 9.2 Range 4.5-12.0
T3 30 Range 24-39
Free Thyroxine Index 2.8 Range 1.2-4.9
total Cholestrol 219 Range 100-199
Triglycerides 230 Range 0-149
HDL 30 Range >39
PSA 0.6 Range 0.0-4.0
Total Testosterone 226
LH 3.6 Range 1.5-9.3
FSH 1.8 Range 1.6-8.0
Estradiol 17.9
*I have the entire HFP7-LP+12AC and CBC with Differential/Platelet. I can post any of that info if needed.

I will track body temps tomorrow and post results.

My goal since the low test diagnosis and the androgel not effective is to get my diet in check, lose 20 lbs or so, but I don’t think this alone will increase my test levels to where they need to be. Any advise and guidance would be much appreciated… thanks.

CBC: please provide with ranges:

  • albumin
  • hematocrit HTC
  • hemoglobin
  • fasting glucose
  • iron or ferritin if available
  • AST
  • ALT
  • anything else out of range or near range extremes

You can and should increase HDL:

  • high potency B-complex multi-vits with trace elements and iodine
  • DHEA 25mg, then later do DHEA-S labs
  • fish oil caps, flax seed meal or oil, nuts
  • C0Q10
  • TRT with E2 management

Provide history of iodine intake.

Ambien: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolpidem#Adverse_effects

  • This has the possible effect of increasing estrogens by loading up the liver enzyme pathways that clear estrogens.
  • Initiates sleep, does not sustain, time release formulations overcome some of that effect.
  • Trazodone might be a good alternative and there may be some value in not staying on ambien all of the time.
  • Melatonin is the way that you brain is designed to work with, MUST be in a time release tablet, suggest 5mg. It is an effective sleep initiator. So it can displace some of the actions of ambien.

Other labs:

  • homocysteine
  • fT3 and fT4 are more useful as globulin bound thyroid hormones are inactive

FT would have been useful. I assume that it is also low. Your E2=18 appears low, but with low FT, bio-T, you can still be estrogen dominant. With your weight, it would be expected that you would have more aromatase, higher E2 and lower T levels.

[quote]KSman wrote:
CBC: please provide with ranges:

  • albumin
  • hematocrit HTC
  • hemoglobin
  • fasting glucose
  • iron or ferritin if available
  • AST
  • ALT
  • anything else out of range or near range extremes

You can and should increase HDL:

  • high potency B-complex multi-vits with trace elements and iodine
  • DHEA 25mg, then later do DHEA-S labs
  • fish oil caps, flax seed meal or oil, nuts
  • C0Q10
  • TRT with E2 management

Provide history of iodine intake.

Ambien: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolpidem#Adverse_effects

  • This has the possible effect of increasing estrogens by loading up the liver enzyme pathways that clear estrogens.
  • Initiates sleep, does not sustain, time release formulations overcome some of that effect.
  • Trazodone might be a good alternative and there may be some value in not staying on ambien all of the time.
  • Melatonin is the way that you brain is designed to work with, MUST be in a time release tablet, suggest 5mg. It is an effective sleep initiator. So it can displace some of the actions of ambien.

Other labs:

  • homocysteine
  • fT3 and fT4 are more useful as globulin bound thyroid hormones are inactive

FT would have been useful. I assume that it is also low. Your E2=18 appears low, but with low FT, bio-T, you can still be estrogen dominant. With your weight, it would be expected that you would have more aromatase, higher E2 and lower T levels.

[/quote]

Hemoglobin 14.8 Range 12.6 - 17.7
Hematocrit 43.8 Range 37.5 - 51.0
Fasting glucose 91 Range 65 - 99
Albumin 4.6 Range 3.5 - 5.5
AST 27 Range 0 - 40
ALT 22 Range 0 - 44
Iron 80 Range 40 - 155

  • Close to being out of range are:
    BUN 21 Range 6 - 24
    BUN/Creatine Ratio 19 Range 9 - 20
    Uric Acid 7.5 Range 3.7 - 8.6

Thanks for the HDL opinion. I will follow it. As for TRT, should I go back on the Androgel 10g? Which brings me to the thyroid… My body temps so far have been 97.3 10:00pm last evening, 97.1 at 7:00am this morning, and 97.2 at 11:00am this morning. Maybe I wasn’t absorbing the gel because of thyroid… ??

I have been taking 6,000 iu vit D, 50mg Zinc, as well as One A Day Mens multi vit daily since going off Androgel weeks ago, but as far as Iodine intake? zero, except for whats in salt (I don’t use sea salt). With my body temps I would asssume I have a Iodine defficiency.

My Testosterone Test did include Free test, but Dr. was waiting on the results of that test. Should have it Monday and will post.

Thanks for the Ambien info. I will get off that asap!! I feel it’s causing some problems with Test due to the fact I read Ambien decreases REM sleep.

I will get the other labs soon and will post results.

thanks KSman.

Trazodone is a cheap Rx, $10 for 90 days in some places. 150mg, will split to 50, 100, 75 etc. Start at 50.

Thanks KSman

Here are my oral temp readings…

Sunday
7:15am 97.1
11:30am 97.2
6:00pm 97.9

Monday
5:00am 96.8
11:00am 96.9
4:00pm 97.9

I ordered Lodoral 50mg tabs and DHEA 25mg tabs. Should be here by March 3. I’m assuming I may have an Iodine deficiency. Correct?

Today, tuesday oral temp was:

5:00am 96.1
9:00am 96.8
3:00pm 97.7

With the 3 day reading would I have an Iodine deficiency or something worse?

Hopefully iodine deficiency and then iodine replenishment can fix that, problem solved.

You need to confirm that the thermometer can get 98.6, check with someone use, same technique. Note that if one is iodine deficient, others in the same house hold probably are too.

Have you got iodized salt on the table and in the kitchen now?
Find vitamins that also have iodine, typical 150mcg.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Hopefully iodine deficiency and then iodine replenishment can fix that, problem solved.

You need to confirm that the thermometer can get 98.6, check with someone use, same technique. Note that if one is iodine deficient, others in the same house hold probably are too.

Have you got iodized salt on the table and in the kitchen now?
Find vitamins that also have iodine, typical 150mcg.[/quote]


Yes, iodized salt used daily, for years. My order of Lodoral 50mg tabs should be here by Monday. I’ll post the day I start the supplement with temp numbers…

Yes KSman, I tested the thermometer on my 15 year old daughter. It read 98.5.

If I am iodine deficient and temps get back in range will the 10mg Androgel absorb better or should I wait till diet and excersise get established and check T levels again?

Thanks KSman and others on your feedback…

We do not have much data concerning improvement of transdermal T absorption with thyroid meds or iodine replenishment. Any data is not organized and spread across many different websites as filtered by ones recollections. I would not expect a great result.

IR may not be the root issue if temps do not respond. If IR fixes low temps and improve how you feel, T might improve, might not at all. We often see overlapping health issues and one cannot make sweeping generalizations about how all of this will respond to changes.

[quote]KSman wrote:
We do not have much data concerning improvement of transdermal T absorption with thyroid meds or iodine replenishment. Any data is not organized and spread across many different websites as filtered by ones recollections. I would not expect a great result.

IR may not be the root issue if temps do not respond. If IR fixes low temps and improve how you feel, T might improve, might not at all. We often see overlapping health issues and one cannot make sweeping generalizations about how all of this will respond to changes.[/quote]

Thanks, I’ll report after I start the IR.

Just received my Lodoral 50mg. Will start IR today. Will post oral temps Sunday and will continue throughout the week to track how therapy is going.

Temp this morning at 9:00am was 96.4

[quote]dprio wrote:
Just received my Lodoral 50mg. Will start IR today. Will post oral temps Sunday and will continue throughout the week to track how therapy is going.

Temp this morning at 9:00am was 96.4[/quote]

Took a tablet yesterday around 10:00am and another this morning at 8:00am. My temps have gone up.
saturday 11:00pm 98

sunday 8:00am 97

sunday 1:00pm 98.1

Note any changes between your ears.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Note any changes between your ears.[/quote]

I’ll give it till tuesday and report then. I will document oral temps as well as how I feel mentaly and physically. As far as today I do feel nice. Biggest difference is my eyes don’t feel as tired if that makes sense…

Ok day 4 has been completed. Body temps have been 96.9 - 97.1 when waking and between 97.9 - 98.4 afternoon. which is about 1/2 - 1 degree warmer. Notich hands arn’t cold anymore (they have been for the past 3-4 years). KSman asked me to note any difference between my ears… Well, I wanted to waitanother couple days to see if this was real or something like a placebo effect. I can say this without a doube. My evergy level has increased 100 fold. Not like an anphetamine type high, but a gradual, steady rush. I had brain fog, but didn’t realize it until today (day 4), because of how clear I was thinking, with ease. I mentioned in another thread about my eyes. I wear progressive lense bi-focals for reading. past year and a half I noticrd my eyes got tired, heavy, and dry quite ofter. Usually an hour or so after waking up. Progressivly got worse till mid-day when I would get very tired, eyes and body… exhausted. Today I could read a paper sign 40m feet away just fine with no eye strain. Thats it for the first 4 days. I’ll report back Saturday with the rest.

I had some diahrea today, but not bad enough to drop the dosage down… just yet. I also have a metalic taste in my mouth in the morning and sometined throughout the day. Drinking plenty of water helps that. Noticed very dry hands today.

Overall, feel very good. there are moments throughout the day that I feel like I did decades ago… in ny mind, calming…

It’s been 1 week today that I started IR therapy, 50 mg daily. As stated earlier in the week I woke with a metalic taste and it was persistent throughout the day on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, but has since subsided. Oral tems in morning around 97.3 to 97.4 and mid-day 98.4 to 98.5, which is about 3/4 to a degree higher than before the IRT. Skin seems to be dry ie. hands, forehead, scalp, and upper arms, but mothing alarming. Today I started with 2 1,000 mg of Natures Blend Omega-3 fish oil concentrate softgels, along with 25 mg of DHEA.

Brain fog low, Energy higher. Thinking is clear and eyesight seems to be sharper (mainly because I don’t have the tired feeling in the middle of the day.

I’ll report anything else throughout the week…

Any suggestions?

Continued with the iodine up untll the 14th of March and felt really tired/lethargic throughout the day with a few headaches, metalic taste, almost flu like symptoms (just about worse than when beginning IR therapy). So for the next 7-10 days I took a half tablet (25mg) about every 3 days. I was thinking it may be becaue of the Iodine itself, but after researching I found it may have just been my bodys reaction to the excreation of bromine. I started back on a tablet each day for the past 3 days. My temps in morning range betwee 96.8 and 97.4 and several times reached 98.5 by mid day, ut usually 97.8 to 98.4. I thought this would be like a week or so thing with the IR therapy, but now realize it may take a month or two. Could this be right? Mental clarity and lethargic feeling seemed better today. From what I’ve read the symptoms of bromine overload are increased as the body eliminates it. Am I right? If so I am going to order another bottle or two of Iodine.

thanks.

Nice log. It may be bromine. Do you have fishy bad breath or body odor?

Take taking or time for 750mg?

I had the improvement in mental state as well and that was motivating. I did not have any adverse effect other than gut flora disturbances and farting. I reduced daily dose and was OK with that. Can’t recall timing of that. I do not recall a metatic taste. I have seen that referenced elsewhere, but we have no idea if such reports are bromine related or not. We can expect as normal, that there will be great variations in one’s experiences.

Thanks for weighing in Ksman. I report this to help anyone else that goes through the Iodine Replacement therapy and will be very specific… I have a constant metalic taste in my mouth that could be describes as fishy I guess… My bowel movements have a fishy smell, not the normal **** smell and light tan in color sort of soft clay like in texture. I have been sneezing quite a bit throughout the day during the time I have taken the 50 mg tablets (I’ve read this is another symptom of bromide elimination), but I don’t have the bad feeling I had a few weeks ago after I started with the Iodine. On the 3rd thru 5th day of therapy I felt better than I had in years then I felt quite bad (tired, moody, etc). come to find out this was the elimination process, but panicked I guess. My temps are still not where they need to be, but it may increase when the bromide and other stuff is eliminated from my body. Looking at the products that contain bromide (Mountain Dew, bread, orange gatorade, etc) I consumed quite a bit and over the past 3-4 years or so I can tell the brain fog, lack of motivation, lethargic, sensitive to cold weather, etc started.

Ksman, what did you mean by… “Take taking or time for 750mg?”

My current dose is 50mg every morning and I’ve read that if the symptoms of bromide elimination come back since restarting with the Iodine to start the salt therapy. 1/2 tsp sea salt in a 1/2 cup arm water followed by 12-16 oz water then repeat in 45 minutes. The salt is supposed to help flush out the bromide.

" Take taking or time for 750mg? "

You talk about taking things over time. I am wondering if you have or will have 750mg on board.

“”"
NOTE ON BANNING POTASSIUM BROMATE IN BREAD:

The UK banned bromate in bread in 1990.
Canada banned bromate in bread in 1994. (23)
Proposal P230 in Australia: Food Regulation Ministerial Council (FSANZ)
still has not finalized its July 2007 proposal to mandate iodized salt in
breads, breakfast cereals and biscuits.

Back in 1999, the Center for Science in the Public Interest petitioned the
FDA to prohibit the use of potassium bromate, charging that the FDA has
known for years that bromate causes cancer in lab animals, but has failed
to ban it. (24) As of September 2007, the US FDA responded to Breast
Cancer Choices inquiry with the statement, " Potassium Bromate is still
listed as a safe additive."

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