46yr old Low Normal T on HRT, My Story

Greetings,

Here is my backstory.
46 yr old male
5’8"
waist 34"

Body comp has changed since lifting (for the better) used to be skinny fat, now I have abdominal fat that I cannot seem to lose completely. 14-15% body fat by caliper was 24%. Lots of body hair. Historically lots of hair on my head, but it’s starting to thin with age.

No known health conditions, bloodwork back with great results except T numbers.

I’ve done 5x5 SS for about 16 months, recently switched to Wendler 531 for variety.

I eat mostly lots of meat and veggies, keeping carbs from fruit under or around 100g per day.

High libido, lots of morning wood as normal. No loss of function.

When I began lifting I quickly gained strength and my body comp started changing, but very slowly. I suspected that I might have low T. A year later (late this summer) I insisted that I get my T levels checked during my physical, the Internal Med Dr basically refused to do it until I told him that I would simply order it myself and that he might as well just add it to the blood work order. A week later I was confirmed low “normal”.

9/15/12:
Total Testosterone 258 250 - 1100 ng/dL
Total Testosterone was measured by LCMSMS. The LCMSMS method
correlates well with our extraction/RIA method.
Free Testosterone 51.1 35.0 - 155.0 pg/mL

I was then referred to an endocrinologist who pulled more bloodwork:
10/3/12
LH 1.3 0.8-7.6 mIU/mL
Prolactin 1.9 2.5-17.0 ng/mL

The doc suggested he would put me on Clomid to “jump start” my endogenous production, he then would not see me for 3 months. I started on 50mg EOD, which initially made me feel great but then about a week later I started acting like a PMSing chick. I then became very concerned that I would not be seen for months, I found a new doc who seems interested in helping me out and he pulled more bloodwork.

11/9/12

Estradiol 33 < OR=39 pg/ml
FSH 2.4 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
LH 2.5 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
Testosterone 455 ng/dl 241-827 ng/dL
DHEA Sulfate 193 45-345 mcg/dL
SHBG 17 nmol/L 10-50

Dr takes me off Clomid he thinks my FSH and LH are whacky as a result of it. He puts me on a single tube of Testim 1% (5g) daily. I take 100mg of zinc, 200mg of DIM (diindolymethane) (extract of broccoli, kale and other veggies), glucosamine, and 4g’s of high quality fish oil daily.

My bloodwork is back after 6 weeks on the gel.

12/19/12

Estradiol <12 0-39.8 pg/mL
Testosterone Total 111.0 ng/dL 160-726 ng/dL
FSH 1.7 1.4-18.1 mIU/mL
LH 2.6 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
DHEA Sulfate 147.0 80-560 ug/dL
SHBG 27.4 nmol/L 13-71
T3f 3.28 2.3-4.2 pg/mL
T4f 1.33 0.89-1.65 ng/dL

So as you might see my T dropped 75%, my FSH dropped almost a point. I assume this is because my endogenous production shut down a couple of weeks ago now that I’m on the trans-dermal crap. The initial feelings of being well have subsided and I definitely feel lower than I have.

I seem to have done well one month into using clomid I got to 455. Tomorrow when I speak to my doc about this i’m going to suggest that I be put on the same protocol as a friend of mine which is self admin injectable T, Arimidex and HcG.

Given the amount of weight I’ve been moving for 18 months I would think I’d be much bigger than I am. I eat clean, and sufficiently, lots of protein and veggies, I have stubborn ab fat, although I look remarkably different than I did even a year ago. I’m fairly strict in my lifting protocols and take good care of myself.

I seek the advice of those on this forum as many of you clearly know a hell of alot more about this than most Dr’s. My doc will most likely do anything I suggest - he’s a good guy. What should I do?

I think I’ve included most of the information needed.

Please read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys
    – come back here with more info
  • protocol for injections
  • thyroid basics
    – report body temperatures
    – report iodine in vitamins and use of iodized salt

Just spoke to my doc about the 100mg of T enth, 250iu eod and arimidex protocol layed out elsewhere on the site and he’s receptive to it. I do have a friend on this protocol as well and he’s packing on the muscle and losing ab fat like crazy. In any case my doc has said he thought the 250iu of HcG was high. The good news is that I’m getting started tomorrow. I hope one of the more knowledgeable folks on this forum will chime in before then to reinforce what I believe is the proper route based on my research.

There was a research paper, May 2005, that took normal young males and shut down their HPTA’s with injected T cyp. LH and FSH went to zero very fast. Then then introduced hCG at 125, 250 and 500iu SC EOD. The measured ITT [intratesticular testosterone by sticking needles into their testicles]. With 250iu SC EOD the ITT was almost as high as baseline. Conclusion was that 250iu hCG SC EOD restored normal testicular activity. They referred to this as low dose hCG.

I have no idea what your doc is thinking. Print http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/90/5/2595.full.pdf and ask doc to read.

Thank you for your response. I will bring the paper with. Worse case scenario I source my own to supplement what is prescribed. Having found a doc that knew anything about the subject was hard enough. I’m sure that he will consider the paper you supplied thoroughly. Thanks again.

Doc’s need to learn things. He might work out well.

Well my regimen is now:

100mg T Cypronate split into two shots per week
250iu HcG EOD - damn this stuff ain’t cheap
1mg Anastrazole (Arimidex) split into two doses a week

I’ve self administered the T Cyp and HcG at the dr’s office this morning, how long will it take for me to feel any effects?

Ok, 10,000iu/10ml of hcg is VERY EXPENSIVE. And insurance will not cover it. Are any of these off-shore sites particularly reputable? I have a scrip for it, and I’m a cheap SOB, any pointers on a less than $200.00/vial source would be greatly appreciated. Walmart so far is the only pharmacy I can find locally that has it. Too bad Costco cannot source it.

Sam’s club has it, but you need a business membership to get the good prices. Talk to compounding pharmacists. They will mail it. Make sure that they ship dry!

Here in Norcal the only Sam’s Pharmacy is 100 miles away and they cannot get HcG right now, if they could it would be $67.00/10,000usp. I do happen to have a business account, but they mentioned nothing of needing it.

Thanks for the info

I’m doing my second 50mg shot of T-Cyp today. My scrip is for 90 days and there will always be several doses left when I refill. Given that the main reason I even discovered my low T situation was a lack of lean mass gain - if I wanted to bump myself a bit more into the anabolic range, should I increase my dose by 12.5mg e3d?

I’ve just figured out my schedule and it seems doing e3d will next me higher doses some weeks. Common sense says that time just flows, so I shouldn’t give it much thought and just do it.

Thoughts?

To reiterate my current program is:

100mg T Cypronate split into two shots per week
250iu HcG EOD - damn this stuff ain’t cheap
1mg Anastrazole (Arimidex) split into two doses a week

I order my HCG from a site called safe meds 4all, its $66 with shipping for 3 5000iu vials.
Takes about a week to get.

Having done the math looks like my 90 day scrip for t Cyp will allow me to pin 180mg/week without running out. I’m considering having that be my cruise dose if it works out after 30 days on bloodwork. I’m seriously considering doing the blast thing every now and then given that I’ve read elsewhere here that there are guys over 40 like me that are doing it successfully.

I really do want to try to make up for these 18 months lifting on low T. Will doing SS 5x5 3x a week be enough work to make me bigger? Or do I need to increase the volume? Would doing 500mg/week for the blast phase be a good place to start? How long are blast phases normally done for a TRT guy wanting to put on some decent muscle?

Massive knee pain on .25mg e2d arimidex. Dissolving 3mg in 3ml vodka as we speak going to drop to .10mL (which is .10mg) e3d for a while, I think I may be an over responder. Could use any advice…

Was also thinking of going of Alex altogether for 7 days before trying the new regimen. My last panel showed me at <12 e2 that was on testim gel. This was the panel after which I switched to 180 tycp/week, 1mg adex/week, 250iu hcg e2d.

OK. skipped my Adex dose yesterday and I feel much, much better today. Very minimal knee pain. PR’d on back squats. Definitely seems to have been the issue. Going to stay off for a week, then restart at .125mg e3d.

Any and all advice appreciated.

I’m on 100mg a week of T Cyp and it took my numbers from 103 → 727 in about 6 weeks.
Everybody is different but just to give you something to compare.
I can tell you my E2 went off the chart at that level, as I didn’t have Anastrazole at the time.

I am now on this protocol and having new bloodwork done in a couple weeks.
100mg T Cypronate split into two shots per week
250iu HcG EOD
.25mg Anastrazole EOD

I’m 45 yrs old and feel tons better and seeing muscle growth. Give it time before you start bumping up your doses. I know you want to catch up on lost time but that won’t do your body much good. Get leveled out and then make changes if you have to.

4th day without AI. Going to restart on Monday, just at a lower dose. I don’t think that my bumping up my t Cyp is the cause, most of my friends on HRT are on 200mg/week and one of them is a anastrazole over responder and initially complained of the same issues until he halved his weekly dose. It’s an art not a science as they say…

Doc told me that he’d read some research that suggested that I try 500iu HCG e3d instead of 250ui e2d. He said that pulse therapy more closely simulates the body’s release of gonadotropins.

Anyone care to weigh in?

hCG has a long half life and nothing can mimic the very short half life of LH and the way that is is released in pulses over time. Yes, E3D would create some fluctuations. Either way should work. The scrotum may not care about steady vs pulse.

8 weeks in. Just got my latest bloodwork back, still no T numbers. Everything looks good so far. E2 is at the holy grail number of 25ng/dL. DHEA and LH dropping. DHEA 96 on 45-346 down from 113. I don’t have the numbers at hand for the LH. I guess this is par for the course? The drop that is? Also my boys aren’t hanging quite as low as I remember, and I’m on 250iu hcg e2d, should I bump that up? The small balls thing is annoying as fuck. Is there anything else to do about the “hang”?