T Nation

46 Yr Old Boxer. Start Roids for Life?

Hi guys,

Used to box in my British Army days where I was also a PTI. I competed and such then carried that on. I dont compete anymore, but will train till I die.

Im into all around fitness, running, try to hit all the main compounds at gym and then boxing.

Thing is as I hit 40 and belong into the big blue it not my ability that is suffering. I can still clout out half the young’ans haha. But thats more a midset I think but the fitness is still there. Issue is recovery.

Ive finally got to a stage where training daily is getting to the stage where I do a light day every other. Has me really frustrated. A 55 year old guy I know from gym who I know said he took 100 Test E 10 months a year then PCT. He trains same as me but recovers like a 20 year old! He says its the Test. Hes not a dealer so not gonna make money out of me and ive seen him go.

Ive took roids before but a decade ago so no stranger, done all the research and done it all safely. Ive never been a body builder but appreciate fitness very much.

Im considering doing what he does. Part of my research is just putting this out there. So here I am.

Only thing that concerns me is its gonna be a life long commitment. I mean there is no going back. Im not gonna do anything rash.

Not wanting to divulge too much on an open forum but fitness keeps my head on straight. And allows me to take way less mental health meds. Many like me. Fitness will be part of my life till I die. Not negotiable.

Am I doing the correct thing. Remember Im not wanting massive hypertrophy or to be a bodybuilder however leans muscle mass isnt a problem as long as its predominately functional.

When I did my last cycle thanks to a dirty bulk (Ate anything! Dick I know) I went really fat. If I keep my diet clean what I will do, way I see it is diet is the first port of call with things like this, roids being the last after you have tried everything else, but I must ask 100ml of Test E a week not gonna balloon me with water is it? Or anything I haven’t considered.

Please feel free to ask any Qs, rip the piss whatever (just don’t live in glass houses :slight_smile: )

First post. Joined TN after reading some inspiring posts that got some great respectful answers.

I was in a similar situation. Why not get bloods checked, you may be a candidate for TRT. If you’re just going to cycle, then plan a full cycle and maximize it, if you’re considering low dose “cruising” then look into TRT. It was the answer for me.

Hi mate,

Excellent idea. I had considered at least talking to my GP and have discussed with others. Turn out a freind of mine is on TRT.

He highlighted a few problems using it for sports. Not why he’s on it.

1 - Seems they wont put you on as much as you want to be on.

I dont know how they measure it so this is just an off the top of the head analogy.

If a 21 year olds T levels are 30 and a 50 (too soon ha) is a 15, Say I am a 14 they will just boost me up to a 15. I want to have it all, just been honest.

2 - My friend says his levels are low for his age but his consultant has assured him, now I dunno, gets a little sciencey for me, but his consultant assured him whilst he’s a little low there are a lot more factors at work. Things like (Possibly) he has more receptors to bind the fewer T cells or whatever.

Id be pleased to hear your comments on this. Its an option I need to explore fully.

I believe this to be true. I had low levels of testosterone for many years, but it was always quite easy for me to build muscles.

Hi mate

Yeah exatly that. Apparently his consultant told him all these adverts you see (In UK) ‘do you have low T’ whilst your at every other urinal in the land seemingly is just a way to sell you just that.

Its not just your Test levels that’s in play. Someone like you have just said with low Test levels to the national average could be highly anabolic.

What I am effectively asking for it abusing Testosterone (by medical standards anyhow). I understand how 100ml of Test E is pretty far from the normal 500ml cycle people even on their first cycle run in Body Building circles, but as much as like any human on earth Id love extra muscle and less fat Body building isnt my game. BUT…Id still wager 100ml is way more than the NHS would let me have. I feel the best I will get from them is regular blood tests.

Still, worth exploring. And a great mention.

I think ultimately it depends on to which t level the doses you mentioned will get you. If it just takes you to where you are already, which can happen when the dose is too low and your own production shuts down, then there is no point. Doctors should at least try to get you to mid range.

The receptor level is often ignored. All the extra horses dont make your carriage any faster if there is no space to attach them too. Receptor density and quality are important factors.

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I get what you’re saying, I’ve cycled gear on and off since 2007 so we’re on the same page. Thing is, if you’re low, 100mg might only get you back to a reasonable level, so not really abusing. It is a legitimate medical condition after all. Personally I’d check, if needed jump on TRT and then run a cycle or two per year over and above that should you still want to do that. Then your year round levels are good and you blast for the “abuse” portion.

Yeah thats makes a lot of sence. If Im producing 100mil worth of test E anyhow pointless shutting down for the same. Great, I hadent thought of that.

I honestly cannt see a consultant let me take gear on top of what he will give me. From my friends account they get you to a target level of test via blood test. If I then start taking on top they will either boot me out of reduce to zero or till they get me to that target. What I take on top would be pointless.

Maybe a better way would be to have my own blood work done private. Then hit my own target with the Test E?

Is there anywhere in the UK offers such a service? Blood work before I get the boot. Not asking for a source. (Not yet anyhow haha)

With TRT(and steroids in general) you will be getting a guaranteed steady level of testosterone, regardless of your age, health. Even an otherwise healthy but overtrained person might have an impaired ability to produce naturally the amount of testosterone you should. Not an issue with TRT.
At 40 its very unlikely you would naturally produce 100mg of test/week. So taking exogenous test even at a low amount should bump you up to a decent level.
Definitely get blood tests to see where you’re at. Test, PSA, and all the other regular things a GP would prescribe for general health.
At about 43 yo my T was about 14.5 on a scale of 9-28 for a normal range. That’s probably around average for a man that age. 125mg of Sustanon/week puts me around 24-25, so just in the high normal range. It a noticeable improvement, but obviously not as much benefit a a true steroid cycle.

I don’t know where you are at with having kids, but if you haven’t got any yet, or want more that’s something else you should consider, as TRT can lead to problems with fertility.

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Hi mate.

Great post and points as all have been here.

Ok so how do I approach dr? I mean I’m asking basically for the highest safe amount of test.

Its gonna have to be a sales pitch. There not gonna naturally get me to the max unless there Is a reason. I’d guess they’d play it safe and go for minimum and that’s only if your under to start with.

How do did you come to be on Sust? Is that TRT?

The figures you have shared are greatly received. Gives me something to think about. Of course everyone’s different.

Kids. Nooooo way. Got one that’s enough. She’s lush and my world but happy with the one. Had the snip last year.

Hey Loch, Go to your regular GP, tell him you feel tired, don’t recover well from exercising like you use to. If you want to go there say that your libido and or morning wood isn’t what it use to be either? Ask about getting your testosterone checked.

Wait for blood test to come back, see what your T levels actually are. If they are naturally low you might have certain genuine cause to go on TRT. If not tell the Dr you have heard about the anti aging, benefits of TRT, and that you want to go on it, and realise that you will probably be on for the rest of your life. Add that you want to do it safely under the supervision of a Dr.

I don’t know about the details of the NHS, but I’m guessing that they discourage what they see as a medically unnecessary dependency on govt subsidised medication. If that is stopping them from prescribing,then offer to pay full price for a private script, for off label usage.

In reality most Dr’s don’t have any experience with steroids, are scared and afraid of any potential legal/malpractice splashback on them. Steroids have suffered from a very bad reputation, not because they aren’t very effective medically, but because of the association with cheating in sport. That’s a very big difference from improving your quality of life day to day.
If your Dr won’t prescribe them, find another DR.

I believe possession of steroids is not illegal in the UK? If so you can still use underground steroids, tell your Dr that you want your health monitored whilst using them.

125mg/wk seems to be the average max dose for TRT. You can get a lot more out of 125mg/wk than you might think, especially if you have done a big cycle before.

I’ve talked about this before, so I’ll try and keep it short. I have long term chronic pain(decades) for most of my adult life, (life time interest in bodybuilding too)and came to the conclusion I was going to have to either try steroids and see if they could help, or go on prescription pain medicine(which I wanted to avoid at all costs because of their addictive potential).

I started with bodybuilding cycles, and found that pain was dramatically reduced, and range of motion dramatically increased. I had trouble finding Drs that were willing to prescribe, because
I didn’t have low T, and there is a very high threshold(though low number on the scale) for medically diagnosed low test. Below 9 is technically low, on a 9-28 scale for normal T levels, but you have to be 5 or below to qualify.
They didn’t even talk about the option of a private script(though I later found out it was always an option)
I was using underground gear, and I proved to myself that trying steroids greatly improved my health. However I was busted with possession of unprescribed steroids by the Police. They were pretty cool about things when they heard my background and the reason for using them.
I got a criminal conviction over it, but I got the feeling they weren’t very concerned about it.

The good thing was it did manage to get me treated more seriously by the medical professionals, who showed me that it was actually possible for me to get prescribed steroids to help my condition. Now doing TRT, though I would do the occasional blast if I could get another less androgenic steroid prescribed. Unfortunately despite their proven effectiveness, many genuine useful steroids are no longer made by legit pharma.

I had used Sustanon before as part of a bodybuilding cycle. It was the first steroid I was offered by Dr’s, and at that time the was a supposed international shortage of legitmate pharma testosterone choices like Test E or Test C.
Sustanon is more expensive via a prescription than other test, but it gives you the advantage with TRT of only needing to inject once every 2 weeks. Other short estered tests need to be injected at least once a week, for TRT, many guys feel best on splitting the injections twice a week.Note it does take 4-6 weeks for the long ester of the Sustanon(a mix of 4 different test esters) to kick in and give you really stable levels. Until then I noticed a drop in energy, during the second week, before the next scheduled injection.

One strategy many use to get a higher dose prescribed is to lower you injection amount before your blood test. If they prescribe you 100 mg a week, inject lower and then blood work will show you need more. Don’t go to crazy out they will know something is up. I would do like 75 mg.

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Beyond Beyond

Thanks so much for the detailed reply. Really appreciate the effort and time!

I will confrere with my GP. My freind who is not into sports at all and under goes TRT tells me here in Limey land the NHS give you and injection once every 3 months. Not every week. They inject you with this solution thats like custard and the nurse always says his hand hurts after the 5 min clart on injecting it. The nurse apparently says its the thickest substance he has ever come across in his 20 year career. My freind then reports he has a dead arse haha for a few days and has this lump within it that eventually breaks down. Now, being a man like your self that has previous takes Sust (250 for me) I used to just draw it up with a green and inject my delt with an orange. Job done weekly. I had (shame I can no longer get in touch with him) a great souce and got legit gear. My mates NHS experience seems drastically diff from mine.

Honestly mate after thinking long and hard I think for me id rather get a good source with legit gear and pay what it costs. Id use the NHS to do my bloods and such only. Id just do the rest myself. One thing the NHS will do is help me at the other side if ever I need to get off. Getting the gear and the low (BB speaking) amounts wont break the bank. I

Its def worth a try asking the NHS though and I will first. I just think the above paragraph is how its likely to work here in UK.

Yes Steroids are legal to possess. You just cannot sell them. (Or give them away) I should say sell and the correct terminology is supply. So as long as I keep what I get and can explain why I have say a years worth and that there for me and no one else I would be fine. Gotta be honest, the police here are quarter strength at best. They have been cut back to the point they cant even back themselves up. I reckon they wont be kicking my door in for a long time. Shame what happened to yourself. They could have at least let you off with a warning or something.

@ Mnben

Hi mate, like i was saying above a freind gets this and he gets a 3 month shot. Not sure how you’d fiddle that? Maybe take Test E on top for 8 weeks? Even so all your bloods that would be accurate at the time of your 3 monther and wrong for the rest of the time. I have to conclude its either do what the NHS say to the letter or just do it myself. I think im gonna only get the results I want by doing it myself.

Im very grateful for the points you all have raised here. Thanks fellas.

***** My above comments re the legality of personal use of steroids are based to the UK mainland only. And that was last time I checked.

Do your own independent research unique to your location if these things mater to you.

Just to jump in I tried to get TRT on NHS was a no go, they wouldn’t address it with my levels despite being at NICE guidelines for trt on NHS, got told “sometimes we just treat the symptoms” and then got offered Viagra and anti depressants, probably could have fought it but decided if that’s their attitude/level of understanding about trt I needed to go elsewhere.

Went private in the end, been on 2.5 years (first supplier went with 125ml sust every 5 days - but I don’t react well to sust - different supplier now but on 140ml of Test E per week now, also went to prop briefly) been good for me, can’t say I’ve noticed much improvement in the gym recovery levels at that dosage, but I was 30 when started so hadn’t really got much natural decline, my symptoms weren’t in the gym.

If legalities matter and cost doesn’t then there’s a couple of decent private places that will cater to you in the UK (and give you a reasonable dose).

Also as you mentioned the NHS do nebido - Test-undecanoate super slow response 1000mg shot, sounds like it causes as many problems as it solves (not least the golf ball in the bum and long peaks and troughs). I think it is possible to get Sust on NHS but not sure the NHS like self administration.

Yeah, not a fan of Nebido, (test undecanoate by itself. I quite like it as part of the Sustanon mix though). If you cycle rather than trt, or Blast and cruise, I would stay right away from the stuff, as the undecanoate stays in your system for ages. Nebido gives me bad acne.

Honestly I didn’t read all the replies, just your post. I will say that TRT is NOT going to make you feel or recover like a 20 year old again. If you’re truly low T it will make a profound difference though. If you’re not low T, I would not partake. TRT is not magic or easy. It takes awhile to dial in and can have all sorts of side affects. I wish I didn’t need it, but I medically do. Partake at your own risk.

I would agree with you if you were talking about a sub 40 year old, but at some point in every man’s life, your body is going to get to a point where you will be better off, going on TRT if you lead an active life. The older you get, the less testosterone you will produce, and you will start to waste in terms of muscle mass, with sarcopenia. Use it or lose as you get older.
You also have the option of doing a blast, that will make a very noticeable difference without having to worry about PCT. I think that’s more important for a younger man, who perhaps is still interested in maximising his fertility.

I agree with both points to a degree. I’m 47 and won’t ever feel 25 again unfortunately. But at 47 I retain decent muscle mass with an acceptable BF%, I lift 5 times a week and can still give the youngsters a hard time in sparring 3-4 times a week. I certainly feel better and can do more than what I perceive the “average” 47 year old can do and feels like.

As for the OP. I started on prescription TRT over 4 years ago but now manage it myself. I test bloods every 6 months and blast as I feel the need. I did spend 2 years trying to learn as much as possible before going on my own. You can do it yourself and not be accountable to anybody except your health. Most important is to get a baseline hormonal panel and then make decisions from there.