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45 Year Old Beginner Doubts

I’m still progressing in Squats and DL but I’m beginning to fail too often in floor presses, PC and the press. I’m 5.7 172 lb (up from 165) and squat 212/FP 132/DL 228 Press 100, PC is at 110)

Now let’s get you there. Can you add some pull-ups/chin-ups?

[quote]mbdix wrote:

I’m still progressing in Squats and DL but I’m beginning to fail too often in floor presses, PC and the press. I’m 5.7 172 lb (up from 165) and squat 212/FP 132/DL 228 Press 100, PC is at 110)

Now let’s get you there. Can you add some pull-ups/chin-ups?

[/quote]

Yesterday, I squatted 216lb 3x5 with solid form, press deloaded to 88lb 3x5 fine, PC deloaded to 88lb 5X3 shitty form mostly. Total time 1:17 not counting warm-up sets for squats.

Tried to do some pull ups but couldn’t. Was really tired (Had slept only 4-5 hours and had a cold/sore throat during weekend).

Today I tried again. At 176 lb now, I did 3,1,2,2,23 pull ups with acceptable form, tried chin ups to no avail.

Would doing pull/chinups only in rest days work? I mean M-W-F with starting strengtt and Tue and Thur shinups/pull ups. Or is it only effective if they’re done in the same workout? Would that affect recovery

I’m experimenting with how much whey powder I can tolerate to see if I can recover ore easily specially triceps. I’ve started with 1 scoop in the morning and 1 before bed. (I think it’s 16g per scoop)

Agian, thanks for your input everybody it really helps keeping motivation up.

[quote]oldbgn wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

I’m still progressing in Squats and DL but I’m beginning to fail too often in floor presses, PC and the press. I’m 5.7 172 lb (up from 165) and squat 212/FP 132/DL 228 Press 100, PC is at 110)

Now let’s get you there. Can you add some pull-ups/chin-ups?

[/quote]

Yesterday, I squatted 216lb 3x5 with solid form, press deloaded to 88lb 3x5 fine, PC deloaded to 88lb 5X3 shitty form mostly. Total time 1:17 not counting warm-up sets for squats.

Tried to do some pull ups but couldn’t. Was really tired (Had slept only 4-5 hours and had a cold/sore throat during weekend).

Today I tried again. At 176 lb now, I did 3,1,2,2,23 pull ups with acceptable form, tried chin ups to no avail.

Would doing pull/chinups only in rest days work? I mean M-W-F with starting strengtt and Tue and Thur shinups/pull ups. Or is it only effective if they’re done in the same workout? Would that affect recovery

I’m experimenting with how much whey powder I can tolerate to see if I can recover ore easily specially triceps. I’ve started with 1 scoop in the morning and 1 before bed. (I think it’s 16g per scoop)

Agian, thanks for your input everybody it really helps keeping motivation up.
[/quote]

Can you write out your exact routine? I wouldn’t add pullups/chinups to your rest days yet. Being a rookie and older recovery is imortant. Keep doing that with the protein powder but also make sure you have a protein shake immediately after your workout. Your squat is still progressing, you will hit your goals in that area soon. Are you doing floor presses every workout? If so, why aren’t you doing overhead presses on (B) workouts in it’s place?

[quote]

Can you write out your exact routine? I wouldn’t add pullups/chinups to your rest days yet. Being a rookie and older recovery is imortant. Keep doing that with the protein powder but also make sure you have a protein shake immediately after your workout. Your squat is still progressing, you will hit your goals in that area soon. Are you doing floor presses every workout? If so, why aren’t you doing overhead presses on (B) workouts in it’s place?[/quote]

Routine is A/B workout M-W-F So, one week is ABA, next week BAB

Workout A

Squat 3x5
Floor press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5

Workout B
Squat 3x5
OHP 3x5 (by press I meant this one in my former post)
Power Clean 5X3

[quote]oldbgn wrote:

Honestly if it were me, I would drop the Power Clean day and add pullups/chinups day.

Reviewing your post and had some random thoughts…

  1. Why is it taking an hour and 17 minutes to complete your workout, even excluding warm-up sets? I would try shortening the rest periods between sets to build up some work capacity.
  2. You don’t do any auxiliary work - but it appears you have lagging triceps since they are sore all the time and your floor press is not progressing. Address the weakness. I would suggest incorporating some push ups, dips, or something at the end of each workout to strengthen tris
  3. If you struggle with chins or pull-ups, I would add some BB or DB rows to strengthen upper back / lats. Another auxiliary move but worth it.
  4. Get a foam roller if injury prevention is high on your list of goals - they work. Full body (back, hams, quads, hips, will probably help your tris too)
  5. I think supplements get a bad rap - yes it is an industry and some (most) over market and hype them. But a few have worked for me. A clean whey protein isolate powder, creatine, multi, and beta-alanine in my daily routine. I know nothing beats whole food, but my schedule does not always allow me to eat 6 meals a day - life gets in the way most days.

My 2 cents - good luck and stick with it.

IMO, it makes perfect sense your pressing movements arent progressing if your triceps are sore. they havent healed and grown. There are plenty of folks more knowledgable then me on the causes of this. a few possibilities are over training,not enough recovery time,poor nutrition,inadequate sleep. Doing more tricep work will not help this. pullups are fine and you dont need to worry about chinups. its possible starting strength isnt the best program for you. i think pec deck flies and then chest press would be a good idea,pre exhaust the chest…stuff like that. if the program isnt working after giving it your best effort coupled with knowledge,junk it and find something more suited to you. period. good luck with this. Confusion

I agree with Confusion if over training, poor recovery time / nutrition is the cause of the soreness, but since you are making progress in the other lifts and only doing a 3 day per week program, did not consider that to be the case. I guess the OP can only be the judge of that. My experience - when I stall on a lift and can feel the weak link…I address it. Respect.

Hi there. I was just reading through this for the first time. Your goals are more than achievable and I will second a poster above that they are more likely short term than long term goals. You may surprise yourself with how quickly you change your expectations. I started lifting in my early 40’s without having any real athletic background to speak of. What, to me, at the start seemed like a distant goal, was quickly in my rear view mirror.

Because you’re new to it, pay attention to recovery and progress. Not everyone reacts the same. I do less now than I did when I started because it takes longer to recover and I need to pay more attention to it.

Starting strength is a great place to begin and learn the lifts. Nothing needs to be super complicated.

For the most part, I’d save my money on supplements (sacrilege I know). I have experimented over the years and think most are marketing. Just eat and don’t worry about it. Plus floss :slight_smile:

[quote]Grove wrote:
I agree with Confusion if over training, poor recovery time / nutrition is the cause of the soreness, but since you are making progress in the other lifts and only doing a 3 day per week program, did not consider that to be the case. I guess the OP can only be the judge of that. My experience - when I stall on a lift and can feel the weak link…I address it. Respect.[/quote]

Thanks for the counter point. lol. We just differ on the best way to approach the weak link.

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]oldbgn wrote:

Honestly if it were me, I would drop the Power Clean day and add pullups/chinups day. [/quote]

That because I can only do 3 pullups or because they’re a better exercise than PC?

[quote]Grove wrote:
Reviewing your post and had some random thoughts…

  1. Why is it taking an hour and 17 minutes to complete your workout, even excluding warm-up sets? I would try shortening the rest periods between sets to build up some work capacity. [/quote]

I know. Last two workouts were 1:07 and 1:09. I lose focus between warmup sets. I think I’ll clock the time intervals between warmups.

[quote]
2) You don’t do any auxiliary work - but it appears you have lagging triceps since they are sore all the time and your floor press is not progressing. Address the weakness. I would suggest incorporating some push ups, dips, or something at the end of each workout to strengthen tris,[/quote]

Worth I try. I learned that a deffective grip when squatting can cause biceps/triceps tendonitis. Two workouts ago my left triceps was pretty baad just after squats so, maybe there is something about that too.

About pushups, what should I do 3X10?

[quote]3) If you struggle with chins or pull-ups, I would add some BB or DB rows to strengthen upper back / lats. Another auxiliary move but worth it.
4) Get a foam roller if injury prevention is high on your list of goals - they work. Full body (back, hams, quads, hips, will probably help your tris too)[/quote]

You use the roller on rest days, right?

[quote]5) I think supplements get a bad rap - yes it is an industry and some (most) over market and hype them. But a few have worked for me. A clean whey protein isolate powder, creatine, multi, and beta-alanine in my daily routine. I know nothing beats whole food, but my schedule does not always allow me to eat 6 meals a day - life gets in the way most days.

My 2 cents - good luck and stick with it. [/quote]

[quote]
2) You don’t do any auxiliary work - but it appears you have lagging triceps since they are sore all the time and your floor press is not progressing. Address the weakness. I would suggest incorporating some push ups, dips, or something at the end of each workout to strengthen tris,[/quote]

Worth I try. I learned that a deffective grip when squatting can cause biceps/triceps tendonitis. Two workouts ago my left triceps was pretty baad just after squats so, maybe there is something about that too.
Maybe try switching from low bar squat to higher on the traps, if your triceps are sore after a squat session. You may not have the mobility or technique yet to perform low bar properly. Or try front squats which place your arms in a less stressful position.

About pushups, what should I do 3X10?
I would suggest just a couple of sets at the end of every workout, to just short of failure. whether that is 5, 10, or 20 reps. Don’t burn out on them, just try to progressively get stronger in a weak area without negatively effecting your other workouts

  1. Get a foam roller if injury prevention is high on your list of goals - they work. Full body (back, hams, quads, hips, will probably help your tris too)[/quote]

You use the roller on rest days, right?
Everyday. I foam roll before every workout as part of warm-up. Try to on off days also, but especially on work days.

[quote]oldbgn wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]oldbgn wrote:

Honestly if it were me, I would drop the Power Clean day and add pullups/chinups day. [/quote]

That because I can only do 3 pullups or because they’re a better exercise than PC?[/quote]

I wouldn’t say pullups are a “better exercise” than PC’s. PC’s are a great exercise. I just feel that your back in your program doesn’t get hit from all angles. Deadlifts and PC’s both have similar starting movements, add in the high pull and catch you got the PC pretty much. Some consider the PC a shoulder exercise. I think right now adding pullups in their place will get you closer to your 1st goals quicker.

You asked in an earlier post if you should do pullups and chin-ups on Saturdays. You could replace the PC’s with pullups in your routine, and do PC’s on Saturdays with maybe some sled pushing/pulling. Or if you don’t have access to a sled/prowler heavy DB carries

I just stopped in to say good work in here, keep it up!

Regarding programming tweaks, they aren’t nearly as important as just getting to the gym and working hard each and every scheduled time. As long as you are doing that, you are moving down the road to getting better and stronger. Don’t lose sight of that or get discouraged. Feel free to tweak here and there as discussed above, but it bears repeating: the most important thing is getting into the gym and working hard each and every scheduled time. Never quit; never give up. Good luck!

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I just stopped in to say good work in here, keep it up!

Regarding programming tweaks, they aren’t nearly as important as just getting to the gym and working hard each and every scheduled time. As long as you are doing that, you are moving down the road to getting better and stronger. Don’t lose sight of that or get discouraged. Feel free to tweak here and there as discussed above, but it bears repeating: the most important thing is getting into the gym and working hard each and every scheduled time. Never quit; never give up. Good luck! [/quote]

Right on

[quote]oldbgn wrote:
Hi, everyone.

Started lifting in August, without any real fitness background, with the Starting Strength program (well, sort of SS, I do floor presses instead of bench presses, increase weight every other workout or every week, and then only 4.4 lb (2 Kg), no auxiliary work).

I’m still progressing in Squats and DL but I’m beginning to fail too often in floor presses, PC and the press. I’m 5.7 172 lb (up from 165) and squat 212/FP 132/DL 228 Press 100, PC can’t get past 110)

FWIW My goals are:

a) Not to injure myself
b) Achieve a decent strength level, which I think that in my case would be being able to squat 260 lb, DL 330 FP 160)

My doubts are mainly:

a) Are my goals realistic? I know that, as per any strength standard they are nothing to write home about, but I mean realistic for a 45 yo that has never trained.
b) Should I stick to SS or linear progression is over for me in FP, PC and OHP and I should try another program. If, so what would you recommend. I’m going to ask this at SS forums but I think that the answer is going to be SS all the way.
C) Supplements. Are they useful/necessary with this weights at my age?

Any input is highly appreciated.

P.S: Hope this is the right forum, if not please move to beginners or where appropriate[/quote]

I’m 47 years young myself and train just 3 times a week on a 5x5 type program ie not the strong lifts one, anyway in getting to the point in less than a year I have managed a 2 x bodyweight squat, 2.5 x bodyweight deadlift and just under a 1.2 x bodyweight bench press at a bodyweight of 64kgs/140lbs in less than a year.

So in my humble opinion your goals are definitely achievable by sticking with a basic program for me personally the 1 rep max’s I managed were my goals apart from the bench press where I’m still after 1.5 x my bodyweight, so as you can see the 2 x bodyweight squat, 2.5 x bodyweight deadlift and 1.5 x bench press are with in your grasp if you stick with the basic’s.

Hi everybody. Last month has been very frustrating. Worse workouts ever.

Had to reset OHP, Floor press and PC and start microloading. I’m at 97lb in the OHP (previous 5RM was 100lb),FP at 130 lb (prev( 140) and PC 100lb (previously 110). My PC suck more and more everyday, like my form is worse or I’m weaker.

Squats were kind of ok. Since I bought Starting strength book, I switched to low bar and moved from 210lb and I’ve stalled at 225. The sad part is that my 11 y.o. son was counting my reps at 225 to ensure that I was squatting under parallel and according to him I always missed one or two. I thought he was being to strict and yesterday I decided to video myself. Workout was lousy in general (1:37 min!) and not a single squat below parallel.

I’m deadlifting 260lb with questionable form, fwiw.

Pain in my arms have been killing me, due to the squats. It wasn’t the triceps but the brachialis what was sore.

Now squats are the last exercise of the workout because, if I did them first, couldn’t stand the presses. I’m trying a narrower grip and it helps a bit. Still it’s quite debilitating physically and mentally. I’m feeling quite tired in general despite resting and eating ok-ish (come to think of that I stopped taking multivitamin suplement a week ago)

So, either I’m a major wuss or I badly need a deload. For the moment, I’m going for deloading and a major reset.

I’m planning on deloading Wednesday and Friday by ramping up sets to 90% of my previous 5RM. and then try the following starting next Monday:

Workout A

Floor press 3x5 132
DL 1x5 260lb
Squat 3x5198lb
Dips 2x8

Wokout B

OHP 3x5 100lb
Pendlay Rows 3x5 90lb?
Squat 3x5 202lb
chin up/pull up 2 to failure

Arm pain permitting, I’ll add 3x8 hammer curls for the brachialis on Fridays.

Then microload the presses and the row 2lb every workout and 4lb for the squat and deadlift. I’ll focus on form and on keeping the main lifts under an hour.

What does anyone think?

Frankly, I know that by any measure I can only be considered a beginner but that 5/3/1 weekly periodization looks tempting (with workouts at 40% adn 80% of your training maX).

Happy new year to everyone!

Wow, you sound roughed up. It’s a bit difficult to give the right advice. I can throw some things out there but it would be very helpful if you can post some videos of your main exercises, post your current stats and diet and be a bit more specific about your injury symptoms (what are you exactly feeling, where are you exactly feeling pain, when are you feeling pain, with what movements or positions?).

  • Maybe you’re making some form mistakes that are starting to add up and injuring you? (video would help)

  • How is your overall health, stress level, daily rhythm/ schedule? How is your diet? Are you able to rest/ sleep enough?

  • Do you ever de-load, and what does your de-load consist of?

  • Have you ever tried wave loading intensity per week (working up to full intensity over the course of, say, 3 weeks, followed by a de-load week and then starting over with a little increase in intensity, working up to a higher new full intensity) (and yeah, that would be a deviation from starting strength, but you’re not really following that program anymore anyway)

  • Are you really focused on pushing your 1RM or are you also OK with pushing your rep maxes?

My simplest advice would be to really focus on developing a solid foundation in the movements by “greasing the groove”. The only way to do that is by practicing those movements often and learning what works/fits best for you. Once your main movements are properly “greased” and you feel solid and stable you make them your bitch. Focusing too early on the latter without developing/ maintaining a solid foundation in the movements will lead to bad form developments and injuries.

  • Dips should be done on rings, it’s a bit more difficult but safer for the shoulders. Be careful with dips.
  • Don’t pull Pendlay rows all the way against your body, especially if your shoulders/ biceps are giving you trouble ( http://www.T-Nation.com/training/how-to-do-the-top-8-back-exercises ) (read exercise 3)
  • Training to failure is not something I would normally recommend, especially for new movements.
  • the biggest compound movements should be the first exercises that you do, so DL & SQ first (sounds like something is fucked up with your squat, so again, video would help)

By the looks of it you may have pounded yourself into the ground for a bit, so you may need more of a reset than a halfhearted de-load.
Your overall health is the basis for everything so if you think you haven’t been overdoing it you’ll really need to take a look in that area.

Happy new year