T Nation

45, Tired a Lot, Hard to Make Gains in Gym. Looking for Info


Could be all of the above.


Day two of being on T, T3 and DHEA. All my anxiety symptoms gone. Must have been all of the above as you said and my body was not used to all that.

Systemlord, I read in another thread you said 200mg of T was the top limit for people. That’s what Defy has me on. Is it common to stay on a high dose like that or taper down as time and blood work come in?


Then they must know something I do not, Defy Medical doesn’t do something without reason. There must be one, perhaps you hyper metabolize testosterone and you have high SHBG which higher doses are used to lower SHBG. Since you’re working with Defy you shouldn’t worry about it.


I trust them…was curious as I respect your opinion. You’re correct in that I have a high SHBG. It was in the 70’s of a top range of 55 I think.


How do you all travel with hCG? I bought a little travel deal for insulin people that has little frozen packs that go in it. But those aren’t gonna keep the package cold for more than an hour and a half. I have to travel a flight longer than that. What do I do???


Curious to know how your treatments are going and how you’re feeling at this point. Been on TRT (50 mg test cyp every 3.5d and no hcg nor ai) - have now moved to Defy and have consultation this Wednesday. Have been super impressed with them thus far. Would rather pay out of pocket with Defy and work with folks that know what they’re doing than working with local dimwits who seem clueless.

My igf-1 number was high…275. Believe me, at almost 50 and I’m in pretty good shape (6’, 190 lbs), I definitely don’t feel higher gh levels and find it harder to put on muscle and keep waistline slim over last 5-10 years. Hoping they can explain why this number is high. Guessing I’ll need to have further tests done…possibly even an MRI to check pituitary for benign tumors that may be functional and increasing igf-1. Also have high thyroid antibodies (Hashimoto’s?)


I feel good. Way better than I have the last few years. I put in 15 lbs already in muscle. My chest is much bigger and my legs are as well. I have more energy (also got put on thyroid meds). I’m not yawning all day like before and no need for naps like before. Defy told me not to take any AI because my E2 was so low. As of right now I’m living TRT and I’m 3.5 weeks into it. Hope this feeling continues.

Oh yeah sex drive way higher too.


Can anyone here recommend a great doctor who will prescribe TRT in the Houston area. Someone that will work with the patient as opposed to what most doctors do? Reason I ask is because I’d like to see if I can get my insurance to pay for some of this treatment. Defy is wonderful but slow and expensive even though I can afford it.

Thanks for any help.


That will be an ongoing fight. Some companies, while initially approving treatment, deny it later when levels are restored. Some will not approve E2 testing, or AI (breast ca drug) treatment.

I think the day is coming when no insurance plans will cover TRT.


If this happen not only will people become more unhealthy, they will have more medical problems as a result and cost insurance companies even more money. In the future doctors will be required to offer TRT for those that are low or face multiple lawsuits if enough patients are diagnosed with the diseases associated with low testosterone.


Do you think it will go in the other direction and coverage will be available to those in the lower end of normal ranges? Or, perhaps they raise the low range so more would qualify?


I believe those at the lower end of normal are sick and diseased, whether from lifestyle choices or just crappy genes. The reference ranges have too many sick people mixed in with the healthy people, and those on their way to being sick. It’s the job of laboratories to be technically accurate, but it’s also their responsibility to adjust range for age.

Obviously a 21 year old guy should be scoring in the high normal ranges, older men scoring in the low normal is to be expected. We all know insurance companies are always finding ways to get out of paying on claims. This is making people diseased and unhealthy, it makes them look like the devil. If insurance companies keep pulling this crap it makes more sense to pay cash for our medical needs.

The house is coming down, one brick at a time.


I was told that Quest lowered their total test range a few years ago, after negotiations with BlueCross.

I don’t know how far sighted insurance companies are, but perhaps with more evidence that TRT/HRT increases longevity and decreases illness, they may change directions. I just don’t see it happening.

Colonoscopy screening is an example, though not a treatment, as most insurance plans do not apply the deductible to the test. They must believe they save money if people get tested. If they believe they can save money covering TRT, they will.


Just past 6 weeks on 200mg/wk of Test-c and I feel a ton better. I was 173-175lbs when I started and now weigh 190-192. I’m the strongest I’ve ever been on the gym. And I’ve been lifting since I was 18. It’s amazing how much more weight I can push around. I’m never sore the next day regardless of how hard I lift. Whereas before I’d be sore for days and exhausted. People have told me how much bigger muscle wise I am. Clothes fit tighter for sure. I have a lot more energy. Dick is harder and sex drive higher. I’m loving this and would love to stay on 200mg.

Only side effects are oily skin and a tad of acne. Sometimes I don’t sleep all that well but that’s only been like 4 nights in 6 weeks.


Taking ai? Hcg?
Or anything to control e2?
Injections per week?


Everything is listed earlier in my thread. 100mg twice a week. 500iu hCG twice a week. No AI.


Thanks. It’s usually good to restate protocol. Makes it easier for those who did not read entire thread or forgot.

Glad u feel good man.


Glad to hear you’re responding well.

We have similar e2 levels and My T is 326 but im 24. Wil be starting Defy soon.

Im curious what your e2 is at now.


Not sure. I went and had my blood drawn last week because I wanted to know. Well lab screwed up my tests and wants me to come back in for redraw but I am a pilot and fly internationally for a living and got sent out On a trip so I can’t do anything until another week.

But they did get back my RBC and such and all that was still in nor al ranges. Hemotacrit only went up like 2 points from pre TRT. Liver and such all good.

I’ll post results when I get them.


Not sure if anyone follows my thread or cares, but at the 7 week mark I went and had my blood done just to “see” where I was after 100mg twice a week (200 total), no AI and 500iu of hCG twice a week. I feel great. Stronger than ever in the gym. Good energy levels as well as libido. Some acne and oily skin. Didn’t get lipids done but got the basics.

Total T = 1066 300-890 (tested right before injecting)
Free T = 193.8 47-244
SHBG = 52.8 16.5-56.9
E2 = 76 max of 29
Hemotacrit is 46
liver all well with in ranges.

E2 is high, however I feel great and based on the T/20 & T/14 ranges I am right at 14 so not sure I’ll touch it with an AI.

I am up for Defy’s 3 month lab work soon so I’ll post that after it happens. I have made HUGE gains in the gym. Stronger than when I was in college. Gained 20lbs. Look and feel good. Sex drive great. No complaints other than some acne.