T Nation

44 Yrs Old, Starting Test E/Deca Cycle


#1

I'm 44, 6'1" 200 lbs with approx 15% bf. I Bench 230 lbs for reps and squat bodyweight for 15 reps. I've worked out for years before this, but then I switched for awhile to Muay Thai and lost loads of fat (and muscle) weight. So I had to rebuild again over the past 2 years or so.

I'm looking to do a 12 week cycle with:

350 mg Test /wk
250 mg Deca /wk
10 mg Nolva /day

I have HCG for PCT post cycle as well as Arimidex on hand just in case.

I realize this is a light cycle but I wanted to start that way to see how my body might react. I'm a bit afraid of possible sides, especially the gyno and the hair loss. I did get a complete medical checkup including an MRI of my arteries. My BP, arteries, and cholesterol are optimal right now. My bloodwork did show low test. I'm at 320 where I understand normal is 300-1100. But my doc didn't want to prescribe test for me.

There are a few reasons I've chosen to do this:

1) I want to look better and get stronger. I think at my age I'm hitting a limit as to what I can do naturally. When I was in 20's I could work out 2 times a week per muscle group with no problems. Now, I barely can recover after a week from heavy leg work. I look muscular now, but I doubt I an pack on another 10 lbs in the next 3 years.
2) I feel a general blah mood that I can never seem to shake. No depressed, but just not real springy.
3) My libido has declined dramatically. probably too much for my age group. I blame the low test.

I'm interested if anyone sees any problems with this cycle and if maybe you can recommend anything. I would love to hear anyone here, but I'm especially looking forward to hearing from any "older" folks.

Thanks in advance!


#2

Well, I guess I’m one of the older guys, though I’m a tad younger than you. I assume this is your first cycle…? It’s a relatively modest cycle, but there are a few things that should be adjusted.

First and foremost, best to stay away from deca right off the bat. It’s not a particularly harsh AAS, and using it lets you reduce the amount of test being run, but it brings forth its own set of potential complications, and a need for additional ancillaries (caber or perhaps prami). A test only cycle for first-timers is something that is repeated as mantra around here, and for good reason. 500 mg / week is a good starting point… test E shot twice a week… nice and simple. Less to concern yourself with, and it yields great results.

Run the adex on cycle, not post-cycle. Use it to keep your estrogen under control. Keep the nolva for your PCT.

hCG is best run on cycle as well, 250 IU twice a week is a good protocol. It’ll do it’s thing if you leave it for PCT, but your better off using it in small, maintenance doses during cycle, rather than in high dosage after the damage is done.


#3

I agree - Deca is a popular choice among older users due to its low androgen activity - but it is a very suppressive drug (more so than Androstan based drugs) and also suppressive to libido on top of inhibition.

For this reason i wouldn’t suggest you use it. If you do - don’t use above 300mg/wk, don’t use for longer than 6 weeks and ALWAYS run 1mg/wk of Cabergoline for the duration and preferably the 2-4 weeks beyond cessation of the drug. JMO.

Anyway… I do NOT know if the 5aR inhibitors such as Finasteride etc, have any positive effect on prostate swelling, but i know that if you added it along with a good AI you would definitely help the issue (the AI alone would) - as well as protecting the hairline and preventing gyno or excess estrogen levels.

Due to the cost and availability of AI’s such as Anastrazole, it is common for regular, recreational users to use Test as standard now - when IME this was NOT the case 10+ years ago.
So with the ancillaries available in mind, you could use more Test and have no further worry about estrogen or DHT (Gyno/MPB) increases beyond the natural level.

So yes, a 500mg/wk Test cycle would be good. If you wanted more anabolism with less ‘sides’ you would do very well to stack drugs like Boldenone, Primobolan or Oxandrolone… each are not very androgenic (as in side effects) but are mildly anabolic… so with the mildness of the drugs in mind you’d really want to keep the Test around 500mg and add one in - at respective dosages of say… 4-600mg, 4-800mg and 350-560mg/wk.
it would not be altogether terrible IMo to run say; 350mg Test and 600mg of any of the above drugs. The side effect level would be really low and you would see a notable increase in lean tissue - considering that you are currently running on a low tank, so to speak.

For simplicity i agree that one drug is easier, cheaper - but the 3 additional drugs mentioned will not give any problem that will require determining what drug does what… so should be a non-issue. Of course they cost more though.

I would suggest before you do cycle - get a hormone panel or two… and try to get a script for TRT first. Not that it will help in your cycle - but just because you will likely be looking at starting soon anyway, and trying to recover before getting the script may be miserable.

The other option is getting the bloods done in the weeks after the cycle when levels are still VERY low. either way it sounds like you may well be a candidate.

GH would be a lovely addition too… shame i’m not your doctor eh?!

Brook


#4

Estradiol/E2 is a cause of or makes prostate enlargement worse. Using adex all through the cycle may be prostate protective.


#5

pretty much agree with all of the above…Deca becomes very problematic for us older guys in terms of inhibition of the HPTA and recovery issues. For most of us in the 40 ish area and above simple test cycles are usually best, and i also STRONGLY agree with Brook in that you should get baseline readings now for TRT purposes before you head down this road. If you don’t need it now it is likely you will soon, i am a big believer that complete recovery of the HPTA post cycle becomes nearly impossible as you get older. Best to be ready for that or don’t start at all.


#6

[quote]morepain wrote:
baseline readings now for TRT purposes [/quote]

He has a baseline now, TT=320 and his doc is ignoring his symptoms.

As long as TRT seems to be around the corner, perhaps this cycle will take his post PCT even lower, below 300. However, with the gear, one’s appearance after the cycle might raise alarm with the doctor.

Hard to tell when this doc will permit another TT lab to be performed.

One could take cimetidine [OTC heart burn med now generic] which increases E2 which lowers LH and T, timed for a future lab.


#7

First of all, thank you very much for your detailed responses. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the time you took to help me out. The replies have given me additional things to think about, which is what I wanted.

I had a good friend who has done a total of 10 cycles in his life, but he’s 30. I think that while his advice has been good, he has the experience of a guy in his 20’s on gear and not a guy my age.

I never considered the possibility that my natural test levels had such a high probability of never returning to normal again. They are bad now, yes - but the idea that they could be forever even worse is daunting at best. On the other hand, my levels are low enough now that it’s becoming a problem for my quaility of life. So I’m taking another week to weigh my willingness to be dependent on weekly shots for the rest of my life.

In any case, based on your input - If I do take the plunge, I think I’ll drop the Deca and switch to a Test only cycle for now and see how it goes. So thanks for that warning.

I read one post on a forum (I can’t remember which), where a guy about my age raves about the fantastic boost of his quality of life ever since he started on gear. I also read posts from people who seem to be constantly battling sides.

It’s obviously such a compelling idea to know that there is some escape hatch from the apparent inevitability that my sex drive will go down, my midsection will swell, and that my exercise will soon consist of 30 minute walks. To know that I can buy myself another 10-15 years of physical well being is just one of things I’m not so sure I can pass up …

I know it’s hard to quantify the benefits vs. risks because the benefits bring about such a subjective experience to the user. Again, for you “older” guys here - can you give me your thoughts on how you view the experience now that you can look back on it?

Thanks again for your insight …!