T Nation

40 Years, Need Advice

Hey everyone. Thank you for the latest replies. I was typically getting emails with each reply, but for some reason I did not get these. So I apologize for the timing and getting back.

So, I took the advice of getting rid of Winstrol. I have been off for 2+ weeks now, And only doing the SUS 250 Route.

As mentioned before, especially at my age now, I have been very honest with my Doctor, and he has agreed to monitor me over the course of my transition. I had a good sitdown meeting with him yesterday, and he gave very positive responses in regards to what I am taking. He had said that it was unfortunate that this particular option was not available in the United States. He had mentioned a comparable route, which I believe was the cypionate. But he then mentioned at moderate dosage, I would be much happier with my choice of SUS.

All of that said, below are my latest Lab Tests (Lipids, blood sugar, and Test level). My last Pin was Wednesday morning, and my testing was taken on Friday.

For a quick recap, I am pinning 1ml of SUS 250 (250mg), every 3.5 days. By the way, I have read over many Inquiries over Eminence labs, which sells Sust at a very reasonable price. As my labs will show and personally giving my opinion, they are awesome. I was skeptical at first, due to the coloring. Rather than the fog Yellow look, the Eminence is nearly water clear. But I assure you, I feel great. Prior to my cycle, my test level was at 621. Below are my results after 48 hours in my system.

With the current results, my doctor has stated that there is no reason to stop at this point. He has no concerns, which is awesome to hear.


Nearing eight weeks now, just giving you a little update. A couple of weeks back I began feeling side affects of the Sust 250 (Slightly swollen feet, and sensitive nipples). I did not have my liver or kidney concerns, considering my lab results a short time ago. So I began small doses of Arimadex To counter the side affects. All seems to be on a good track now. I am still does saying 1 mL every 3.5 days of Sust 250. Overall, I feel great. I do not feel like the young 20-year-old, but with all things considered, I again have a drive, and energy throughout my day, Which has been my alternate goal.

As someone had commented before, I do now understand the temptation To keep getting stronger. I have definitely grown a passion for lifting, and challenging myself to outdo My previous week if Overall lifting weight.
But setting goals, accomplishing them, to again send new ones, has always been my lifestyle.

I am definitely enjoying my decision, and very glad I went the way I did. Thank you everyone for the advice given to discontinue the Winnie. I feel Much better without it. And definitely less temperamental. Below is a picture of progress from the start, and four weeks, two now. More updates to come later. Thank you again.

Went to a different Doc yesterday. Caught the entire 3rd degree. Was not a fun experience. Definitely will wait for my real doctor for the next go round

Either way, still feeling great. Here is my latest results compared to the beginning.

Most docs will do this, you’re lucky you found a doc willing to moniter you in the first place, I’d be wayyyy more comfortable using stuff if I had monitering… HINTHINT (just kidding) but I don’t, in Aus, telling you’re doc something like this will probably pan out like the following conversation

Doctor “hi there, what can I do for you sir”
Patient "I’ve been using anabolics, I’m aware of the safety issues and I was wondering if I could get bloods/ monitering every now and then so I know to stop if something’s going wrong (then even if you proceed to explain in detail how aware you are of the risks, the pharmacology or anything, you’ll probably get a response like this)
Doctor “Anabolic steroids are an illigal, scheduled drug, posession and use of them can be penalized with jail time, you’re GOING to get hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, hepatocellular carcinoma, psychosis, osteoporosis, immunosupression (because some will get the side effects of corticosteroids and anabolic steroids mixed up) and all that jazz. I won’t moniter you, I don’t and won’t condone your drug use, you’re aware sharing needles can give you HIV, hepatitis and other bloodbourne diseases”
Patient “But sir I don’t share nee-”
Doctor “Do you even know proper injection protocal, you’ll probably get an abcess, what you’re doing is illigal and immoral, I don’t want to see you again as a patient, I’m putting down in you’re record that you are an abuser of illicit substances, goodbye”

Does this sound like what happened to you? Now, I’ll be the first to say it isn’t the doctors fault (at least here it isn’t) in Australia, doctors and the medical community have been scared SHITLESS over the past twenty years or so as the government started suspending the medical liscences of and drastically clamping down on the prescribing of AAS, hell to get TRT here you typically need to be below 174ng/dl, and even then they’ll boost you up to like 250ng/dl and then be like “that’s fine because it says it’s within range”! Propaganda and scare campaigns ensued, so did news articles, stories and coverage villifying any doctor who was prescribing anabolic steroids (potentially even for legitimate reasons), jailtime was also on the table for docs who prescribed higher doses of testosteorne, deca, GH and whatnot. Due to all the negative coverage (and some new data (mostly on animal models, but some on humans) emerging demonstrating the negative effects of anabolic steroids on cardiac and potentially (but unlikely) cognitive function, people are more scared than ever to prescribe or even moniter people using these drugs. From what I recall, a medical practitioner can actually get his liscence suspended for monitering someone on anabolic steroids in Australia, it’s fucking backwards man, harm minimization should be the priority, not “If we ban all anabolic steroids it’s not an issue” because people will use it anyway, but they’ll be more prone to infections from unsterile products, death from various conditions like stroke, HCM or liver failure as they won’t be getting monitered therefore they may not realize a potentially critical issue before it’s too late, it’s like prohibition in the 1920s and 30s… how’d that go? That’s right… it didn’t fucking work lol, the war on drugs isn’t working either…

On a side note, I’ve been told by a few medical practitioners that the issue with doping is that it’s a practice that no one talks about/ does in secret, and I’m thinking to myself “well you’re god damn right it’s a secretive practice, we certainly can’t tell you, all we’ll get is a long lecture and a permenant mark on our medical records, so why would we tell you if there was consequences in doing so. If you guys could have less of a stigma against us and help us out we’d be far more open to the idea.”

A study was done recently showing anabolic steroids users are looked upon less favorably by the medical community than those who are addicted to cocaine (might’ve been an Australian study but I can’t remember), however I’m not sure where the study is now. I’m not sayin doctors are bad, passing judgement or anything like that, I’m just saying this aspect of the medical community in providing harm minimization practices (especially with regards to helping patients using recreational or illicit substances) needs to be improved. Being a doctor is a very respecable and amazing profession in which one gets to help a lot of people, so this isn’t a bash against doctors, it’s a bash against the way the medical community treats anabolic steroid users in Australia (hell opiate addicts can go in for weaning off, suboxone and methadone treatment (I personally think suboxone/naloxone treatment for addicts is the superior treatment as it’s less open to abuse when compared to methadone but that’s a totally different topic), but a guy using some testosterone without a prescription can’t get an ECG, blood test or any kind of general monitering.

I did definitely catch an ear full for sure. I had been warned from a younger doctor, in most cases Doctors from the older generation are very set in there ways, and do not have much experience in the Testosterone/TRT department, and frown upon it bigtime.

That warning was an understatement. Immidiately I was warned of a stroke and/or a Heart attack. He then told me that this is a controlled substance, and I can go to jail. He then told me that most likely I am getting junk, and paying money for nothing. I then let him know my last test results should be on file, and Testosterone was over the lab maximum of 1500.
.That set a whole new can of shit, with him telling me that I am for sure setting myself up to die. Then gave me a lecture of excess Testosterone causing Heart problems and death.

On the plus side, he did set up the lipid test and wbc testing. I had them told him I dropped my dosage, and wanted to see my T levels. So he did sign off to have the testosterone as well. Which wasn’t too much of a lie. I had pinned the previous Monday, and scheduled my Labs for Saturday (5 days from pinning) I wanted to see how my T levels were at that stage.

I just received my Labs (able to view labs online). Lipids and WBC’s had changed slightly since starting the Sust, but still within safe range for being considered healthy. My bad Cholesterol went up a bit, and the good dropped slightly. Remarkably - my Test levels were still above the peak mark of 1500, which was a bit of a shocker. Being on for this long, signs of my natural testosterone has deminished (Peaches to Grapes syndrome😂). I had truly thought my Test level by day 5 would have been under the 1500 mark, but not the case. It sort of has me considering pinning at a 6 day interval, rather than the normal 3.5.

In any event, I received a call yesterday evening from the Doctors office. They told me that my T levels were at dangerous levels, and I need to stop the injections immidiately.

Knowing I had already scanned over my lab results, I then asked how my lipids and Blood count came out. She everything was nearly perfect, but the Testosterone was dangerously high.

Knowing at this point they were pretty much talking out of there Ass, I couldn’t help asking the obvious question. If I were to be taking Testosterone at dangerous levels, wouldn’t my blood count levels and lipids show concerning numbers? After a short pause they reminded me that my test results did change since pinning began. I then asked if any of the numbers had drastically changed to an unhealthy level (beyond the levels of a healthy individual)? I was once again told the numbers for my Lipids and Blood came back as a clean bill of health. The concern was my Testosterone, and I was again informed to stop immediately. Adding to this, this last doctor stated that he would not monitor my usage, and informed me it was not legal for him to do so.

Not a total loss though. I take other meds, which do require blood work to be tested every 6 months. It isn’t the timing I was hoping for, but will work. Luckily my other doc is much more supportive, and is very big on semi annual labs (with consideration to my other meds). She is awesome, and was fully supportive of my choices.

Sort of a confusing story above. To clear things a bit, the Doc with the lack of support is a regular family Doc. The supportive doc is my Pshyciatrist. I won’t get into those details. Some of us are just wired differently than others, and meds even things out a bit.
She is aware of my choice Test, and has confirmed the other meds do not interfere with it.
She admitted there isn’t much USA literature on the Testosterone topic, and has looked towards the UK for gathering more information. She stated I am one of the first to admit my choice to take it, and almost seemed excited to see what may occure.

I am definitely glad I had her experience, prior to this last. After my most recent visit, I now fully understand why patients don’t discuss these things lol!

As always, thank you for your reply. I appreciate every bit of feedback.

That is spot on about Dr’s and steroids in Australia.

Well, just a quick update and photo comparison. I have elected to do the blast cruise. Currently I am in the process of 250 mg per week. Been doing Sustanon 250 in that dosage for the last six weeks. Here is an updated photo. Still feeling great, heading into 41.

Why are you blasting and cruising? I get the whole age thing however you’re prior bloods show that you had a perfectly functioning endocrine system with regards to you’re sex hormones. Shutting yourself down for no reason forever puts you at risk for no reason (primarily fertility related risks), however if you’re fine with not having anymore kids I guess that’s not an issue.

What dose do you intend to cruise at? 250mg/wk is a cruise dose (but is mildly pharmacologic and is unessecary for you’re current physique), you need to give yourself a break from AAS in order to minimize long term damage on the body using 250mg/wk forever and bumping up to 500-1000mg/wk is like being constantly ON. Unless you really know what you’re doing and/or are a genetic anomaly who is impervious to side effects and/or damage or are a competitive bodybuilder OR are a hypermetaboliser of testosterone, 250mg/wk most likely isn’t nessecary. You’ve made great progress, however you need to think about long term health implications.

I know that “on” feeling is addicting, I felt like superman on 250mg/wk, I’d go back there again in a flash, however I know that long term such doses aren’t healthy for me thus I take breaks (that and I have health issues currently)

I will be honest. I do love the feeling. The energy I have to keep up with my little girl feels great, and I don’t want to lose it. Strength wise, I have never felt stronger. As far as more kids, I am definitely stopping where I am at. My wife and I have 5, which is plenty:). So definitely not planning any more kids.

As mentioned before, I do check my bloods on a regular basis. For a bit of time my HDL was significantly low. But I believe this was the affects of the Winnie that everyone had warned me about. My HDL’s were a bit off for about 2 and a half months after quitting. As of now, everything seems to be back on track. My test levels are still significantly high however, even at one dose of 250mg per weeks. My last results had still indicated above 1500ng/dL (which is the max the lab will detect/provide results for). The most important thing for me, I don’t want fluctuating numbers. I wish the lab would provide me a true Testosterone result, and test me twice a week. But beggars can’t be choosers. I feel fortunate enough how things are, considering the monitoring I have been provided.

With my Test levels still being consistently high, that does bring up a question. Has there ever been an actual study, that displays the level of an individuals Testosterone over short periods of time (twice weekly or more) while on Sust 250? I would be very curious to see this. Currently the 250mg’s weekly still seems to give me the anabolic enhancements, and my strength has not slowed down at all.

I have read a ton of bro science that indicates testosterone levels, and provides suggestions of dosing small amounts every other day to stay consistent. But with the 4 esters, one could make the argument - with how they are mixed, with respect to the half lives, a person should be on a consistent margin for at least 9 days at a time (unless I am missing something).

As always, thank you for all of the input so far. I have greatly appreciated all of it.

I dont think this is correct. You can get actuals but you need to ask for LC/MS-MS analysis.

When I had inquired, they told me they could not get that information for me. Below is the results I was provided, which displays above 1500. I don’t want to argue the fact, considering they are working with me.

Are you in the U.S?

If so, they are plain wrong. This is from Private MD Labs.

Yes I am in the States. I will ask about this. Thank you for pointing it out. Just to make sure, is this something that I ask for prior to testing? Or can they look back at my previous results and give me a read?

No, they would have to analyze it using the LC/MS-MS method

Well, back again with an update. Knowing this is trial and error, I will post my recent doings, and post my most recent pic comparison.

Since my last thread, as I had mentioned I would do, I have cut back on the Sust. I am now at 1 amp of Sust 250 every Sunday only. The strength gains are not as rapid, but still feel good. I have not lost any strength whatsoever, and still gain, but at a minimum now. But considering I am nearing 41yrs, I feel great. As far as crashing towards the end of the week, I don’t feel much of that happening at all. But, I have noticed a significant difference in the different brand names. I was regularly on one, and by mistake I had been given another (much higher cost brand). I was a bit hesitent at first, but definitely notice the quality improvement, and have stuck with it.

In any event, as always, thanks everyone for all of your feedback.

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