T Nation

4 Months In, Can't Get Enough

If its affecting your leg drive, I would bet that you are not tight enough. Get your feet way up under the bench and your body, drive with your heels (even if they are not touching the floor), and squeeze your glutes hard.

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Monday: Back, Biceps
Teusday: Shoulders
Wednesday legs
Thursday: Off
Friday: Chest, Triceps

This will be better for you, what are you exercises looking like?[/quote]

maybe this is a stupid question but even though there is a 1 day rest period between legs and chest/tris, won’t leg/hip drive be affected somewhat during his bench press work? provided he does “enough” leg work to begin with and wants to give priority to chest development in the first place.

good lord I can feel the flames already… but I’d like to know if my thought process is way off or not.[/quote]

Dude this is beginngers noone should get flamed here lol no worries

lost of people train 6 days a week and progress extremely well with strength. If it actually is affecting your pressing which especially after a day off i would think is impossible then move it and take another day off. another one that could work is

Monday: chest tris
tuesday: back bis
wednesday: off
thursday: shoulders
friday: Legs

then you would have 2 days off, or you could do legs thurs and shoulders friday.

i honestly doubt it would even come close to affecting leg drive but if it does change it up theres tons of options, everyone is affected and recovers differently so adjust when you need[/quote]

If you are a beginner, why train your entire body once a week like that when you can do it three times a week?

Thanks for the info, i realise that isolating like that isn’t the best for beginners, height is 180 and weight is 87kgs. (fluctuates 85-89) as for body fat i have no idea but it’s not good at all lol.

Dead lifts: 100kgs (3 sets 12 reps)
Bench press: 70 (3 sets 12 reps)

Squats: still completely novice

theres no point in adding mass a loosing fat when you have a heircut like that…jeezus, it’s like a lop-sided bieber gone emo

[quote]esskay wrote:
If its affecting your leg drive, I would bet that you are not tight enough. Get your feet way up under the bench and your body, drive with your heels (even if they are not touching the floor), and squeeze your glutes hard.[/quote]

??? that’s exactly when I cramped up.

try deadlifting in the morning and benching in the evening, it’s fun…

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
theres no point in adding mass a loosing fat when you have a heircut like that…jeezus, it’s like a lop-sided bieber gone emo[/quote]

Hairs short now…and you definitely sound like someone that needs to get laid :stuck_out_tongue:

Agreed on the fat loss supps…besides, you need to focus on one goal at a time (gaining muscle, or maintaining it and losing fat). You aren’t fat, you just need to fill out a bit more. Once you’ve gained some muscle (e.g. added 15-25lbs or so of bodyweight), maintain it for a few months then diet if needed. If you get diet sorted (e.g. enough protein, not too much crap), you may find your body re-comping quite nicely.

I don’t get why people automatically assume beginners should train bodyparts 3x/week. People’s recovery rates are different; some need 3-4 days rest between hitting a bodypart, others need almost a week. Also, a 3 way split is pretty standard bodybuilding stuff, it’s not pre-contest preparation lol.

This split below is not bad with the exception of doing shoulders on either chest/leg day and simply repeating the cycle over Fri and Sat

[quote]brynndustries wrote:

Monday : Bi’s, back, shoulders
Tuesday: Tris, chest
wednesday: legs calves (basically all lower body)
Thursday: off
Friday: Full body
Sat: This is going to sound stupid… but what I feel I didn’t work the most in that week.
Sun: Abit of cardio etc. really a chilled day.
[/quote]

That would turn into something like:

1: back/bi’s
2: chest/tri’s/delts
3: legs

Mon: 1
Tue: 2
Wed: 3
Thu: -
Fri: 1
Sat: 2
Sun: -
Mon: 3

and so on

Some don’t like to train 3 bodyparts in one session (can’t give bodyparts enough attention especially when more advanced), so they eventually split their routine into a 4 way giving delts their own day or something.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Agreed on the fat loss supps…besides, you need to focus on one goal at a time (gaining muscle, or maintaining it and losing fat). You aren’t fat, you just need to fill out a bit more. Once you’ve gained some muscle (e.g. added 15-25lbs or so of bodyweight), maintain it for a few months then diet if needed. If you get diet sorted (e.g. enough protein, not too much crap), you may find your body re-comping quite nicely.

I don’t get why people automatically assume beginners should train bodyparts 3x/week. People’s recovery rates are different; some need 3-4 days rest between hitting a bodypart, others need almost a week. Also, a 3 way split is pretty standard bodybuilding stuff, it’s not pre-contest preparation lol.

This split below is not bad with the exception of doing shoulders on either chest/leg day and simply repeating the cycle over Fri and Sat

[quote]brynndustries wrote:

Monday : Bi’s, back, shoulders
Tuesday: Tris, chest
wednesday: legs calves (basically all lower body)
Thursday: off
Friday: Full body
Sat: This is going to sound stupid… but what I feel I didn’t work the most in that week.
Sun: Abit of cardio etc. really a chilled day.
[/quote]

That would turn into something like:

1: back/bi’s
2: chest/tri’s/delts
3: legs

Mon: 1
Tue: 2
Wed: 3
Thu: -
Fri: 1
Sat: 2
Sun: -
Mon: 3

and so on

Some don’t like to train 3 bodyparts in one session (can’t give bodyparts enough attention especially when more advanced), so they eventually split their routine into a 4 way giving delts their own day or something.[/quote]

Thanks for the info very much appreciated…and i’ll cut out the burners

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Agreed on the fat loss supps…besides, you need to focus on one goal at a time (gaining muscle, or maintaining it and losing fat). You aren’t fat, you just need to fill out a bit more. Once you’ve gained some muscle (e.g. added 15-25lbs or so of bodyweight), maintain it for a few months then diet if needed. If you get diet sorted (e.g. enough protein, not too much crap), you may find your body re-comping quite nicely.

I don’t get why people automatically assume beginners should train bodyparts 3x/week. People’s recovery rates are different; some need 3-4 days rest between hitting a bodypart, others need almost a week. Also, a 3 way split is pretty standard bodybuilding stuff, it’s not pre-contest preparation lol.

This split below is not bad with the exception of doing shoulders on either chest/leg day and simply repeating the cycle over Fri and Sat

[quote]brynndustries wrote:

Monday : Bi’s, back, shoulders
Tuesday: Tris, chest
wednesday: legs calves (basically all lower body)
Thursday: off
Friday: Full body
Sat: This is going to sound stupid… but what I feel I didn’t work the most in that week.
Sun: Abit of cardio etc. really a chilled day.
[/quote]

That would turn into something like:

1: back/bi’s
2: chest/tri’s/delts
3: legs

Mon: 1
Tue: 2
Wed: 3
Thu: -
Fri: 1
Sat: 2
Sun: -
Mon: 3

and so on

Some don’t like to train 3 bodyparts in one session (can’t give bodyparts enough attention especially when more advanced), so they eventually split their routine into a 4 way giving delts their own day or something.[/quote]

Yeah I think a lot of people think they can recover way more then they actually can, I trained 2x a week for a while and 3x and while i got stronger i did not get any bigger and eventually lifts would drop a bit, and i would get exausted. Then I switched to once a week and Im blowing up. However the split you listed is a good one as long as the overal volume is in check.

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Yeah I think a lot of people think they can recover way more then they actually can, I trained 2x a week for a while and 3x and while i got stronger i did not get any bigger and eventually lifts would drop a bit, and i would get exausted. Then I switched to once a week and Im blowing up. However the split you listed is a good one as long as the overal volume is in check.[/quote]

Yep, IMO most who are serious about lifting and progression are most likely to do too much rather than too little - they can’t stay away from the gym lol

This is where the brain should take over instead of your passion and asses whether you’re actually recovering (e.g. not having as much motivation as before, feeling tired/depressed much of the time, not sleeping well etc). If you’re not able to sustain a split for a while, and strength gains quickly stagnate, it’s probably too much (frequency/volume etc) or under-eating.

A popular and less talked about method these days is having up to a weeks break, or lighter training, every 6-10 weeks (basically just when drive/strength stagnates). I think some people feel they’re not being “hardcore” and feel guilty to do that ^ (as if muscles will shrink into oblivion) even though it actually helps to keep gains coming and drive high.

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:

[quote]esskay wrote:
If its affecting your leg drive, I would bet that you are not tight enough. Get your feet way up under the bench and your body, drive with your heels (even if they are not touching the floor), and squeeze your glutes hard.[/quote]

??? that’s exactly when I cramped up.

try deadlifting in the morning and benching in the evening, it’s fun…[/quote]

Try getting your feet under the bench and set first. The way I have been doing it, I sit on the bench with my femurs pointing to the floor (so I am in almost the same position I would be if I was standing up), put my toes on the floor as far back and out as I can, then flex and lower my upper body back under the bar while maintaining that lower body position. Arch hard, if your back is cramping then you are probably doing it right. Bring your belly up to meet the bar on the way down, and squeeze the glutes hard with your leg drive once you get to the bottom.

[quote]brynndustries wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
theres no point in adding mass a loosing fat when you have a heircut like that…jeezus, it’s like a lop-sided bieber gone emo[/quote]

Hairs short now…and you definitely sound like someone that needs to get laid :stuck_out_tongue: [/quote]

I got laid plenty with hair much more ridiculous than yours

[quote]esskay wrote:

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:

[quote]esskay wrote:
If its affecting your leg drive, I would bet that you are not tight enough. Get your feet way up under the bench and your body, drive with your heels (even if they are not touching the floor), and squeeze your glutes hard.[/quote]

??? that’s exactly when I cramped up.

try deadlifting in the morning and benching in the evening, it’s fun…[/quote]

Try getting your feet under the bench and set first. The way I have been doing it, I sit on the bench with my femurs pointing to the floor (so I am in almost the same position I would be if I was standing up), put my toes on the floor as far back and out as I can, then flex and lower my upper body back under the bar while maintaining that lower body position. Arch hard, if your back is cramping then you are probably doing it right. Bring your belly up to meet the bar on the way down, and squeeze the glutes hard with your leg drive once you get to the bottom.[/quote]

lol and like I said thats when I cramped up. even you say “squeeze your glutes hard”… can you see where deadlifting earlier in the day led to cramps?

but anyway as mentioned earlier OP should be ok with one day of rest, provided he recovers enough.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Agreed on the fat loss supps…besides, you need to focus on one goal at a time (gaining muscle, or maintaining it and losing fat). You aren’t fat, you just need to fill out a bit more. Once you’ve gained some muscle (e.g. added 15-25lbs or so of bodyweight), maintain it for a few months then diet if needed. If you get diet sorted (e.g. enough protein, not too much crap), you may find your body re-comping quite nicely.

I don’t get why people automatically assume beginners should train bodyparts 3x/week. People’s recovery rates are different; some need 3-4 days rest between hitting a bodypart, others need almost a week. Also, a 3 way split is pretty standard bodybuilding stuff, it’s not pre-contest preparation lol.

This split below is not bad with the exception of doing shoulders on either chest/leg day and simply repeating the cycle over Fri and Sat

[quote]brynndustries wrote:

Monday : Bi’s, back, shoulders
Tuesday: Tris, chest
wednesday: legs calves (basically all lower body)
Thursday: off
Friday: Full body
Sat: This is going to sound stupid… but what I feel I didn’t work the most in that week.
Sun: Abit of cardio etc. really a chilled day.
[/quote]

That would turn into something like:

1: back/bi’s
2: chest/tri’s/delts
3: legs

Mon: 1
Tue: 2
Wed: 3
Thu: -
Fri: 1
Sat: 2
Sun: -
Mon: 3

and so on

Some don’t like to train 3 bodyparts in one session (can’t give bodyparts enough attention especially when more advanced), so they eventually split their routine into a 4 way giving delts their own day or something.[/quote]

I dont see why a beginner would train individual body parts without first having trained his full body. My build is not too far off from the OP’s and I have never followed a bodybuilding split, only ever done 3x week full body routines. AFAIK, the usual recommendation is to do a basic beginner routine until you develop a decent strength foundation, then branch off to specialized routines from there.

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:

[quote]esskay wrote:

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:

[quote]esskay wrote:
If its affecting your leg drive, I would bet that you are not tight enough. Get your feet way up under the bench and your body, drive with your heels (even if they are not touching the floor), and squeeze your glutes hard.[/quote]

??? that’s exactly when I cramped up.

try deadlifting in the morning and benching in the evening, it’s fun…[/quote]

Try getting your feet under the bench and set first. The way I have been doing it, I sit on the bench with my femurs pointing to the floor (so I am in almost the same position I would be if I was standing up), put my toes on the floor as far back and out as I can, then flex and lower my upper body back under the bar while maintaining that lower body position. Arch hard, if your back is cramping then you are probably doing it right. Bring your belly up to meet the bar on the way down, and squeeze the glutes hard with your leg drive once you get to the bottom.[/quote]

lol and like I said thats when I cramped up. even you say “squeeze your glutes hard”… can you see where deadlifting earlier in the day led to cramps?

but anyway as mentioned earlier OP should be ok with one day of rest, provided he recovers enough.[/quote]

No, sorry, I always save DL for the end of my routines. But if you are still getting cramps, then dynmic stretches before and between sets of benching might help.

[quote]esskay wrote:
My build is not too far off from the OP’s [/quote]

Then why are you giving people advice?

Did you not read your own thread?

[quote]esskay wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Agreed on the fat loss supps…besides, you need to focus on one goal at a time (gaining muscle, or maintaining it and losing fat). You aren’t fat, you just need to fill out a bit more. Once you’ve gained some muscle (e.g. added 15-25lbs or so of bodyweight), maintain it for a few months then diet if needed. If you get diet sorted (e.g. enough protein, not too much crap), you may find your body re-comping quite nicely.

I don’t get why people automatically assume beginners should train bodyparts 3x/week. People’s recovery rates are different; some need 3-4 days rest between hitting a bodypart, others need almost a week. Also, a 3 way split is pretty standard bodybuilding stuff, it’s not pre-contest preparation lol.

This split below is not bad with the exception of doing shoulders on either chest/leg day and simply repeating the cycle over Fri and Sat

[quote]brynndustries wrote:

Monday : Bi’s, back, shoulders
Tuesday: Tris, chest
wednesday: legs calves (basically all lower body)
Thursday: off
Friday: Full body
Sat: This is going to sound stupid… but what I feel I didn’t work the most in that week.
Sun: Abit of cardio etc. really a chilled day.
[/quote]

That would turn into something like:

1: back/bi’s
2: chest/tri’s/delts
3: legs

Mon: 1
Tue: 2
Wed: 3
Thu: -
Fri: 1
Sat: 2
Sun: -
Mon: 3

and so on

Some don’t like to train 3 bodyparts in one session (can’t give bodyparts enough attention especially when more advanced), so they eventually split their routine into a 4 way giving delts their own day or something.[/quote]

I dont see why a beginner would train individual body parts without first having trained his full body. My build is not too far off from the OP’s and I have never followed a bodybuilding split, only ever done 3x week full body routines. AFAIK, the usual recommendation is to do a basic beginner routine until you develop a decent strength foundation, then branch off to specialized routines from there. [/quote]

Total body is fine if your working everything and not avoiding directly training certain bodyparts. I made that mistake and have been playing catch up with my arms and shoulders ever since

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]esskay wrote:
My build is not too far off from the OP’s [/quote]

Then why are you giving people advice?

Did you not read your own thread?


[/quote]

Because I am not training to be a bodybuilder. Thats the point. The OP has only been training for 4 months, he can both get strong and get a better looking body on a beginner barbell routine instead of a body part split.

[quote]esskay wrote:
I dont see why a beginner would train individual body parts without first having trained his full body. My build is not too far off from the OP’s and I have never followed a bodybuilding split, only ever done 3x week full body routines. AFAIK, the usual recommendation is to do a basic beginner routine until you develop a decent strength foundation, then branch off to specialized routines from there. [/quote]

?

You are training your whole body on a split, just spread out more (thus not having to sacrifice intensity/focus/drive while doing the latter exercises in a workout).

The only help a full body routine does for a beginner is giving them more opportunity to learn the exercises/movements (focussing on the muscle-mind connection) while the loads/exercises are not maximal/intense.

As soon as intensity/load increases, if you are recovered after just one days rest from “blasting” a bodypart, even on low volume, then you are either

  1. not very strong
  2. not pushing yourself enough, to the max/not training bodybuilding style
  3. a freak

Very rarely is it number 3 :slight_smile:

[quote]esskay wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]esskay wrote:
My build is not too far off from the OP’s [/quote]

Then why are you giving people advice?

Did you not read your own thread?


[/quote]

Because I am not training to be a bodybuilder. Thats the point. The OP has only been training for 4 months, he can both get strong and get a better looking body on a beginner barbell routine instead of a body part split. [/quote]

Did you read your own thread?

You are parroting information you heard from someone else, and have about dick real life experience to back it up with.

I can’t figure out from your response above if you are naive, trolling, or flat dumb.