Things area bit different on the other side of the pond, we must sit through agonizingly long big pharma commercials on TV, so there are no pharma reps going office to office in UK.
T-cypionate patents ran out 70 years ago, and no one is making any money prescribing Cypionate, this is why viagra, SSRI’s and Androgel are pushed so hard by doctors. If you’re a car salesman you are going to try to upsell to a higher priced model v.s a lower end model.
The problem is people tend to think of doctors as saviours or a God in a lab coat with high regard and forget that your doctor is running a business.
Pregnenolone in the 60’s was used for anxiety and depression, but the pharmaceutical companies weren’t making much profit from it, and patented prescriptions drugs became to primary focus.
If the price of cypionate was somehow skyhigh, then everyone would be pushing TRT on patients much like what happened with the opioid crisis.
I am anti big Pharma in many ways, but this is really not how it works. Doctors prescribe what is available, and it makes no difference to most docs what they write on the script. They aren’t getting a kick-back or commission. The drug rep comes in and gives the doc bags of free samples to hand out and pens and other crap, and a presentation on how easy and wonderful their new product is and why it’s better than the others. The doc sees the graphs and prescribes the thing because it’s on his mind and because he can give out trial samples.
What @hardartery said is true. They used to wine and dine the docs to get them to prescribe their products but since the Sunshine Act was enacted the pharma reps are very limited on what they can do these days.
I agree its more about the time reps put in to visiting a practise and the docs getting more familiar with x product. There was a good report about the prescribing of psych meds here in the UK. The company who had a bigger sales budget dominated the market. They weren’t doing back handers to the docs, it was more a case of being in their faces a lot more often.
Yeah. I’ve been wanting to say that for a while now after seeing the same person post the same thing over and over and over that wasn’t how it works. Doctors aren’t on commission. They don’t get kick backs from drug companies for every prescription they write. They are human and it’s easy to use something that is accepted as standard treatment and that a rep is showing them constantly.
The issue is more education and what’s generally accepted as standard practices. If TRT were more accepted and understood (it isn’t that complicated) then it’d be much easier to get docs to do it properly without having to go to a private clinic.
I was on Androgel for a short time. Didn’t do anything for me. The week after my first injection was a huge difference.
@ncsugrad2002 I’m in medical sales and that’s exactly right. I’m in the surgical device side now but it’s the same thing. You go to the surgeon and educate him on the new product and basically all they know about it is what the rep says. If a rep comes in there showing how this drug is super effective and easy to use blah blah and they have a decent relationship with that rep then it’s likely they’ll use it and take the reps word for it as truth. Especially when it’s not an area they deal a lot in like TRT. These guys are treating stuff like diabetes 20+ times a day and know exactly what works and doesn’t work. Something like TRT is likely 1 out of every 1000 people they treat so they really don’t have that much real time experience with it. (depends on the doc of course)
Question about when you have bloods done on testosterone.
With thyroid you have bloods done and then take your meds that morning. So meds after a blood test.
I did the same with the testosterone in the results above, but the doc said to apply the gel in the morning and then go and get a test done 2h’s later.
What do people think ?
I’ve always been told if you’re on injections then take the test the day you’re due for a shot but before you take the shot. Ie trough measurement
For cream I’ve been told 4-5 hours after application.
To me this seems to be like total opposites but that’s what I’ve been told to do (and do myself)
I would assume gel would be tested similarly to cream
I have an update from my doc. We spoke on the phone and he gave me 2 options to try with injections:
Nebedo = long lasting, smoother action and so less ups and downs, but can take a few shots to be stable. It also needs a nurse to administer ideally.
Sustannon = weekly and cheap. Is a good one to start with.
I have asked instead to try HCG to see if this may help compliment my gel routine. I know System lord thinks this won’t work for me, but because i have had issues all my adult life with lower thyroid issues i do feel this maybe something which could help augment overall health. By this i am wondering if hcg will help with pregnenalone production and other steroids as well as just testosterone.
So he has recommended 500IU 3 x per week for this.
So hopefully i should be starting injections of this late next week. I will update how it goes on here.
Go with this option, Nebido is the wrong move, it takes forever to build up in your system. Don’t start out on TRT with a bunch of other compounds, start TRT in isolation and add other stuff later otherwise you’ll have great difficulty dialing in.
If i do go for injections i will probably go with the Sustanon as it sounds a lot easier to do.
Anyway, my current status is sort of doing ok on the 2 x gel per day. 3 x gel was really bad. It must have tipped my system into not making anything and the extra 1 squirt couldn’t make up the difference.
Compared to being off the gel i am a lot better, so the gel is working BUT my bloods look terrible. So it is a bit of a mystery.
I do think the HCG is worth trying before i go over to the sustanon. If i do get on this then i will have stopped the HCG because i will be able to tell if it works or doesn’t. No point in using it if i feel worse or feel no change. So i would move from gel to sustanon.
Final thing to mention is the addition of pregnenalone this week. I did 100mcg on sunday and 50mcg on monday. On the days i took it i felt no difference or even maybe a little off physically. But today i feel really good. So i am wondering about using a lower dose of PREG a little bit more, plus wondered if i should take it at bedtime.
what do people think about PREG ?
I would do sustanon once weekly, if having estrogen sides and lowering dosage doesn’t help, split dosage up twice weekly.
I took pregnenolone without lab testing and regretted it, heart raced all night long and couldn’t wait for it to wear off.
Your metabolism must be in a good place. Do you over react to coffee as well ?