T Nation

4 Iraqi Policemen Shot by US Troops


#21

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
What is your take on this atrocity?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1103AP_Turkey_Bible_Attack.html

and while we’re at it, how many Iraqi policemen have been killed by terrorist’s suicide and car bombings this year? A lot more than 4.[/quote]

Religious persecution. How nice. I remember a few people who came across an ocean to escape this crap. I’m glad we don’t have to live like that in the WEST. God bless America, no matter your faith or GOD(s)!


#22

[quote]vroom wrote:
Don’t use Col Jessup as an example.

His fine speech does not change the fact that he manipulated events leading to the needless death of a young man, and then covered it up at the expense of others. Basically, a totally unnecessary and ego driven abuse of power (yes, I know it’s only a movie).

Lixy, while I can understand your desire for the cessation of hostilities, I think you need to think a little bit about the nature of hostilities that will be present if and when the US does leave Iraq.

It has the potential to make current matters look like a day in the park.

Sadly, things have been greatly fucked up in the region, yet again. Presumably the US will be aiding whatever side is anti-Iran or anti-Al Queda, and the region will be in conflict whether or not anyone else has troops there.

Focusing on what are unfortunate and minor mistakes, in the bigger picture, is a churlish move and makes you look like an idiot.

P.S. I want a cookie from some of you right wing retards who always claim that I never say anything against people who aren’t conservative.[/quote]


#23

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
What is your take on this atrocity?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1103AP_Turkey_Bible_Attack.html

and while we’re at it, how many Iraqi policemen have been killed by terrorist’s suicide and car bombings this year? A lot more than 4.[/quote]

Gkhan, you are not supposed to mention to Lixy the carnage that muslims inflict on a daily basis all over the world.

Lixy feigns anger over police being killed by US forces, but ignores the same violence when it is caused by muslims:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/070417/world/nigeria_unrest_police_4

When for example, you read that three people working at a Bible distribution company are brutally murdered by local Islamists, with one having his throat cut, you are supposed to say "well, we must remove the elements in the world that cause these “few bad apples” to react that way - namely Bush & Cheney. Has to be the US’s fault…

You are also supposed to ignore the fact that this Monday, a convert from Islam to Christianity was beheaded by mujahedin in Kashmir: more evidence that the Islamic death penalty for apostates, rooted in Muhammad’s command, “If anyone changes his religion, kill him,” is still very much taken seriously by some Muslim groups. Lixy will go to the “bad apples” card on that as well. Nothing to do with Islam… (Note to Europe: Meet your prospective new neighbors)

Please just focus on the fact that everything that the US does is and will always be wrong. That the muslim world is in no way responsible for the violence in the world, or policing their own.

I have never heard Lixy’s take on the US liberating Kuwait during the first Gulf War(ungrateful bastards that they are).


#24

You know, I don’t normally answer to your posts, but it seems that you constantly post anti-american news on a site that frankly doesn’t give a shit about it. Are you simply looking for a fight? Have you nothing better to do?

If you have this much hatred towards the country that provides for you… then leave. Just get the hell out, because you are no use to this country if you aren’t willing to support it.

Maybe the issues in the U.S. aren’t entirely caused by our president, or our young troops over seas fighting, but perhaps they are also caused by you people who insist and spending every breath you can muster on argueing about what our country can’t do or how it doesn’t meet your unrealistic standards.

I dream of the day when I can fight for this country. It has given me more than I could ever ask for. I believe that those of you who fight against it are completely selfish and disrespectful. If you wish to see another leader or another kind of government, then goodbye, leave.

I don’t care if you want to go share your ideas with other people who share your same ideas… but this site is really lacking those people.

I know that this won’t mean anything to you though. It’s sad to me that someone can be so bull-headed against a country that allows you to do what you do…

But you’ve heard that from every other participant on this forum. Isn’t that a clear enough sign that no one wants you here?


#25

Seems like I’ve taken a lot of heat on this one…

Some of you people don’t even bother reading what I write anymore. They just reply to what they think I’m likely to write. Where did you see me blame the troops for the shooting of the Iraqi police guys? I clearly expressed my sympathy towards those unfortunate young souls lost in a God-forsaken place.

I’m not naive, and I know that the atrocities are not going to stop overnight if the troops withdraw. However, I’m ready to bet that the number of bombings and deaths will decrease if that were to happen.

As for those telling me to check statistics, please provide a reputable and credible source backing up your claim. Till then, I don’t think anyone can refute that the tendency of the curve is upwards.

http://icasualties.org/oif/IED.aspx

In retrospect, maybe I shouldn’t bother. At some point, you’ll realize that the particular war you’re fighting in Iraq has no end, and that it’s time to go home. The only question is how many lives will it take for the madness to stop?


#26

[quote]vroom wrote:
Presumably the US will be aiding whatever side is anti-Iran or anti-Al Queda. [/quote]

Gee…I wonder why they didn’t support Saddam? His side seems like a good candidate for opposing both Iran and Al-Qaeda style extremists. Then he can go on and oppress the majority Shi’a population. Oh…wait, they already did. Nevermind…

I’m not sure supporting the Mujahideen Al-Khalq is being anti-Al-Qaeda. I’ll refer you to the “not all terrorists bad” thread for the topic.


#27

[quote]yanksta wrote:
It’s sad to me that someone can be so bull-headed against a country that allows you to do what you do… [/quote]

Nobody gives me the right to express my ideas. I’m born with it. Ever heard of the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights”?

Your arrogance is close to criminal…

Shit!


#28

[quote]vroom wrote:
Don’t use Col Jessup as an example.

His fine speech does not change the fact that he manipulated events leading to the needless death of a young man, and then covered it up at the expense of others. Basically, a totally unnecessary and ego driven abuse of power (yes, I know it’s only a movie).

Lixy, while I can understand your desire for the cessation of hostilities, I think you need to think a little bit about the nature of hostilities that will be present if and when the US does leave Iraq.

It has the potential to make current matters look like a day in the park.

Sadly, things have been greatly fucked up in the region, yet again. Presumably the US will be aiding whatever side is anti-Iran or anti-Al Queda, and the region will be in conflict whether or not anyone else has troops there.

Focusing on what are unfortunate and minor mistakes, in the bigger picture, is a churlish move and makes you look like an idiot.

P.S. I want a cookie from some of you right wing retards who always claim that I never say anything against people who aren’t conservative.[/quote]

If we’re retards, we won’t know what a cookie is.


#29

[quote]lixy wrote:
yanksta wrote:
It’s sad to me that someone can be so bull-headed against a country that allows you to do what you do…

Nobody gives me the right to express my ideas. I’m born with it. Ever heard of the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights”?

Your arrogance is close to criminal…

Shit![/quote]

The non-binding Declaration of Human Rights aside (it is a resolution, not a treaty), go ahead and try to exercise your “born with” free-speech rights in your precious Arab countries and see where you get.


#30

[quote]lixy wrote:
yanksta wrote:
It’s sad to me that someone can be so bull-headed against a country that allows you to do what you do…

Nobody gives me the right to express my ideas. I’m born with it. Ever heard of the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights”?

Your arrogance is close to criminal…

Shit![/quote]

What so the entire world has the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights?”, how about explaining this to the citizens of North Korea eh?


#31

[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
How 'bout this?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/18/iraq.main/index.html

I think it is sad the U.S. had a freindly fire incident. It sucks that they died, but that was an accident. No intentional killing of those police officers. What about the story above. Doing the will of Allah, I suppose?

And you are helping the situation how exactly? From what I can tell, suicide attacks are a post-US invasion phenomenon and their frequency and deadliness has been increasing steadily.

The ones posing bombs and killing innocents are blood-thirsty bastrards. There is absolute concensus on that. The question is rather whether US presence in Iraq is doing anything else besides fuel the hatred.

If you have figures showing the attacks or the death tolls are decreasing, you may then convince me that the troops should stay there. Otherwise, follow Bolton’s advice and just get the hell out of there before the hole you’re digging becomes your grave. [/quote]

You pointed out that American soldiers killed innocent Iraqis who didn’t deserve to die. And I am pointing out that Muslim on muslim violence is doing the samething on a much broader scale.

I would love to pull out of Iraq as we should have never gone, but could you imagine the blood bath if we did. You think it’s violent now? If we left Iraq would make Sudan look stable. You know, if the violence would just stop, we’d have been out of there a long time ago. Oh shit I forgot, it’s the Jew’s fault! Nevermind.


#32

You people all know he doesn’t actually SUPPORT the resistance right? He’s just telling us it ain’t gonna quit, so there is no actual way to win.

They’re not going to suddenly love us, whether they morally should or not.

That’s what I believe Lixy is trying to say. Not that he supports the Iraqi resistance, but that it’s not going to give up just because we keep beating it down. The Iraqis are not going to suddenly accept democracy and flourish, like so many believe will happen if we just keep sending over our young men to be killed.

This war is Vietnam, not WWII. Leaving is not appeasement, it’s common sense. (Broad generalization that I don’t fully support, but you get the idea).

Correct me if I interpreted wrong, Lixy?


#33

[quote]lixy wrote:
Nobody gives me the right to express my ideas. I’m born with it. Ever heard of the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights”?

Your arrogance is close to criminal…

Shit![/quote]

It’s important that we acknowledge two things here.

  1. He is correct in that he has a right to express his views, although the “Universal Declaration” has nothing to do with it.

  2. He is completely ignorant of the fact that he would exist under German or Russian domain if not for the American intervention in WWII, and the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights” would not exist in that reality. In other words, he is a spoiled brat who cannot appreciate the gifts he has been given, and he should be treated as such. He is not a serious thinker that should have his ideas engaged, he should be ignored until he can display an adequate appreciation for his existence.

Don’t indulge him, it only encourages his infantile expositions. Ignore him, he’s not worthy of serious debate.


#34

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
You people all know he doesn’t actually SUPPORT the resistance right? He’s just telling us it ain’t gonna quit, so there is no actual way to win.

They’re not going to suddenly love us, whether they morally should or not.

That’s what I believe Lixy is trying to say. Not that he supports the Iraqi resistance, but that it’s not going to give up just because we keep beating it down. The Iraqis are not going to suddenly accept democracy and flourish, like so many believe will happen if we just keep sending over our young men to be killed.

This war is Vietnam, not WWII. Leaving is not appeasement, it’s common sense. (Broad generalization that I don’t fully support, but you get the idea).

Correct me if I interpreted wrong, Lixy?[/quote]

Absolutely! I think you pinpointed the misunderstanding; that is, if the others didn’t understand that I support neither the Islamists nor the resistance.

I don’t really care if you obliterate Iraq, Iran or any other M.E. country for that matter. I don’t have interests vested in any of those and it’s neither my tax money nor my compatriots’ blood that is wasted in such conflicts.

My only fear is this: The more you keep behaving like you own the region, the more the radicals will foster. Those put my life directly at risk and give my religion a bad name.

Life is a bitch, and the strong eats the weak in this world. One would have thought that by the 21st century we’d be able to resolve conflicts differently and put guns and lawyers behind us. Oh, well…


#35

[quote]brushga wrote:
2. He is completely ignorant of the fact that he would exist under German or Russian domain if not for the American intervention in WWII, and the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights” would not exist in that reality. [/quote]

I have repeatidely stated that the world is eternally grateful to the US for its role in the eradication of the Nazi and Facist threats. I reiterate that sentiment. However, you’re asking me to shut down my critical mind and overlook subsequent horrors because of that fact.

NO WAY!


#36

[quote]lixy wrote:
brushga wrote:
2. He is completely ignorant of the fact that he would exist under German or Russian domain if not for the American intervention in WWII, and the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights” would not exist in that reality.

I have repeatidely stated that the world is eternally grateful to the US for its role in the eradication of the Nazi and Facist threats. I reiterate that sentiment. However, you’re asking me to shut down my critical mind and overlook subsequent horrors because of that fact.

NO WAY!
[/quote]

The problem is that you only look at the horrors that prove you’re right versus looking at the whole picture. You fit the world into your narrow paradigm not taking the broader collection of facts and drawing a logical conclusion from it. You are young and idealistic, not realistic.


#37

[quote]pat36 wrote:
The problem is […]
You are young and idealistic, not realistic.
[/quote]

If you think it’s unrealistic to expect people to sit down and talk instead of shoot at each other, then I plead guilty.

I’m idealistic in the sense that I hold myself to the same standard I hold others and believe that we could all live in harmony if power is given to the people and their will is carried on. Getting rid of the greedy bastards who benefit from our tearing ourselves apart might help as well in reaching that goal.

As for your accusation of having a one-sided view of the world, it’s simly not true. My posts sound one-sided because I’m trying to counter the one-sidedness I see in other people. e.g:

When HH says that Bush should nuke Iran, I feel obligated to defend the Iranian regime’s position (despite the fact that I hate it). When you say that the troops should stay in Iraq, I must show that too many people are dying for no reason and that your presence there is only boosting the support of our common enemy, the extremists.

It’s very hard debating the issues globally when you’re cornered. I certainly didn’t expect people to be so radical around here, but the result is that my speech was drawn further to the extreme. Was it avoidable? Very likely had I not been so emotionally involved. I guess watching all those pictures and videos of the butchered innocents really got to me…


#38

[quote]lixy wrote:
Seems like I’ve taken a lot of heat on this one…

Some of you people don’t even bother reading what I write anymore. They just reply to what they think I’m likely to write. Where did you see me blame the troops for the shooting of the Iraqi police guys? I clearly expressed my sympathy towards those unfortunate young souls lost in a God-forsaken place.[/quote]

I know exactly what you were going for when you started this post. Our troops are tired and twitchy. Bring 'em home. Period.

They were told lies about the length of their service terms and they were sent over there with substandard equipment. These and the other ways our men and women have been abused by this ill-conceived “war” is going to damage military enrollment for a long time to come.

At this juncture, I don’t give a fuck about who kills who after we leave. To think that our presence makes a difference in problems that have been going on for hundreds of years is dangerously naive. It’s our cocky smugness that got us into this quagmire in the first place.

Bush asks us to have faith. Why? What magical thing is going to happen if we throw more of the same at this debacle? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is a form of insanity. Bush would know this if he was in recovery and not just a dry drunk.

Fuck this stupid war. Good Night.
Scott