T Nation

4-AD Workouts


I'm starting my first 4-AD cycle tomorrow. It's going to be a long one, anywhere from 8-12 weeks depending on my cash flow. How long, if it all, should I do two-a-day workouts?


Personally, I would just hit up Joel's program if your going on for 12 weeks.

Save the two a days for Mag. Just my opinion though.


Believe me, pooh, I'd love to be using Joel's program. Can't though, as the surgery I had ten weeks ago restricts me from doing any overhead pressing greater than 50 lbs, and I'd probably fall to the ground in pain if I tried to dips, chins, or deads. Basically, I have to do pussified training out of necessity. But with 4-AD, Massive Eating, and a Diversity for Hypertrophy type protocol that C-Dub kindly hooked me up with, I'll be able to gain some much needed mass. It won't be functional, which sucks, but I have to make the best of this situation.


I don't do two a days. I don't recover fast though. Some guys on this forum recover really quickly however this is not the caes with me. You should not do them IMO and stick to working out everyday. 4-ad-ec is good, but I find I get dramaticly greater results with 2 servings per day. I like to also combine 4-ad-ec with Tribex-500 since they are both really cheap. You should make excellent progress with this cycle despite your injury.



With Seedub's "Diversity" program you will be bigger and stronger.


How functional is strength? Well unless we are speaking about REAL specific sports or activities, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that what you gain will be pretty functional no matter HOW you build it...

For example, I am much, much bigger and stronger than when I started lifting, my Golf drives used to be in the 250 yard range, they now are OVER 300+!

How did they get this big?, through training for hypertrophy, not any sport/golf specific exercises, just lifting heavy things, putting them down and repeating.

That's it.

Of course, that "aim" thing still gives me fits!

"Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing"

~ Dave Barry


Gotcha CM. Do whatever jives with your situation and injuries.

Still though, with a prolonged 4-AD-EC cycle, I would stick to 1 session a day, albeit intense. I've never seen much point in going am/pm unless your a genetic freak with a pocket full of AAS. Comperable results can be attained with 1/day, in my opinion that is.

As others have mentioned, it depends on your rate of recovery.

If you did do the 2 a days, go with 2 scoops of 4-AD-EC just to be safe. Maybe one serving prior to each session.

As for how long you do this, well that's up to you and how you feel.

Good luck.


Cupcake - "For example, I am much, much bigger and stronger than when I started lifting"

I've seen your photo, If I may ask - how long have you been lifting and how big were you when you started? Just curious because you look to be one of those guys who's been huge his whole life.


No me gustan los dias dobles!


Por que?



I have been lifting since August 24th '01 (I remember because I purchased a Family membership at the "Y" for our Anniversary...I was wrong on the date...oops!...at least I did not forget!)...so almost 2 years.

I started at a little better than 26% Body Fat and 255 Pounds...I am now down to around 228 and about 11-12% B/F...and no, I used to be a Skinny Bastard until I EXPLODED (190-255) in about 24 months.

One day I walked into the Bathroom, looked down and wondered "Where the fuck is my Penis?"...made the decision then and there.

You will be happy to know that I now have daily visual contact with "The Duke" from a vertical position.

My mission now is to hit 255+ and about 9-10% B/F...another 18 months should do it...I hope!


"Big jobs usually go to the men who prove their ability to outgrow small ones"

~ Theodore Roosevelt


'Cake - thanks for the answer, albeit a little too much information - my kids think there's something wrong with me because I just busted out laughing for no apparent reason.

Now, if I could figure out how to "explode" like that I'd be set.

On that subject - What seems to be the general consensus around here, is it easier to be big and cut down or small and bulk up? In general I mean. And who's the majority here ...big people who have come down in size or small people who have gotten bigger? I don't men in strict terms of LBM and BF% but just in overall general appearance.

Just curious


I can vouch for both.

4 years ago, I was a 5'11" 215# guard for my HS football team.

2 years ago, I was trying to burn off the fat foolishly, by calorie deficits + a ton of cardio (steady state) + lifting (overtraining). I got down to 163#.

Now, I'm at 182#, trying to get back up to a solid 195#.

All that it takes is drive, either way.


Oh, I agree with the drive ...my biggest problem is I'm a lazy eater - all or nothing and have a hard time keeping it up for extended periods, you know what I mean?


Sapper....it was ALL FAT, you do not want to explode like that...I was still in the Restaurant business and most meals consisted of Garlic Mashed Potatoes and Real (read FATFATFATFATFATFATFATFATFATFAT) Turkey gravy...

Cost me a fucking fortune in clothes...


"'Escargot' is French for 'fat crawling bag of phlegm"

~ Dave Barry