T Nation

4-AD Questions for Mr. Roberts

Bill Roberts, I have some oral 4-AD from Fitness Labs and have inspected it and noted that the stuff is pure white and totally tasteless - as you say pure 4-AD is supposed to be. I have three questions:

  1. Can I trust that the 4-AD from Fitness Labs is pure?

  2. Will snorting it increase its bioavailability; for example, if I snort 100mgs how much can I expect to hit my bloodstream?

  3. Can I do this without causing serious damage to my nasal passages?

Thanks in advance.

I would be confident the material is of good quality. It’s ironic that one has to go out of the US to find a bulk supplier that produces good quality, but now most companies are so disgusted with the US manufacturer (and its atrocious quality or lack thereof) that they are going for the quality imported 4-AD.

Even the quality stuff, by the way, still needs
further processing to make a crystal-clear
Androsol solution, so it’s not as simple as
just dumping in alcohol, but it’s a far better starting point.

Snorting the powder will not work – absorption would be very low. There are methods involving cyclodextrin. I never experimented with that formulation or tried to find out what it was, because the intranasal route is uncomfortable and gives only very short duration of activity.
I don’t know whether long term damage would occur or not – I’d be surprised if it didn’t happen with prolonged usage.

Thanks for the info, Bill. I recently did an internet search to find more info on 4-AD and I came across another Q&A forum that you used to be a part of and someone asked you if it would help bioavailabilty to put the 4-AD in ethyl alcohol and then drink it. You responded that it would, and said that some of the 4-AD might convert to ethyl esters. Being a heavy consumer of adult beverages myself, I might dump the 4-AD in my beer or take the capsules while I’m drinking and see what happens.

Holy shit!!! I said that if you dissolve 4-AD in alcohol you could get some ethyl esters? The only way I can imagine me saying that is if I were hopelessly drunk or dead asleep, but I haven’t been hopelessly drunk in almost 20 years and don’t think I’ve ever written a Q&A while asleep.

Did I really say that? If I did it was wrong.

The 4-AD wouldn’t dissolve into beer because the water content is far too high. You’d want 180 proof alcohol or better. All that would happen is that it goes into solution, but when it hits the water in your stomach, or the water (or beverage) that you pour the alcohol solution into and then drink, the particle size will be much smaller than in your original 4-AD powder and therefore dissolution rate will be faster.

I am sure you’d get more bang for your buck
by dissolving into alcohol, letting settle,
then pouring off the clear part and using it
in an Androsol bottle or other bottle with
suitable sprayer (giving fine mist over controlled area) if you can find one.

Don’t do the whole batch at once. To the residue left over from the first batch,
add the alcohol for the second batch, then
let settle and decant (pour off) into your
container for the second batch. This way you
rinse the remaining 4-AD from your residual stuff at the bottom. Not practical for large scale, and doesn’t remove everything our process does, but convenient on a small scale and plenty good enough for home cooking.

Does anyone know about the purity/quality of 19-NAD? I heard that it has had more quality problems than 4-AD.

Sorry, Bill. It was Patrick Arnold who said that about the ethyl esters in the April 15, 1999 edition of “Ask Patrick Arnold.” My mistake.

Oh. Well that explains the chemical ignorance completely!