T Nation

4- AD Injectable

I was thinking about making 4-AD injectable.

1.How anabolic is it this way?

2.How much and how often to inject?

I know this may sound crazy, but to me it sounds like a reasonable idea. Can anybody help me?

I think there’s some info on that in T-mag’s previous issues section. Sorry, can’t recall where. Do a search. As I remember, it’s usually a bad idea because there’s really no way to get it sterile i.e. you could really fuck yourself up, get nasty infections etc… I’d forget about it and go for a topical.

The big problem with this is, where are you going to get pharmaceutical-grade 4-AD powder? The “most common” brand, made in the US, is
not what I would even call food grade… only
90% pure and they have not even, so far as
I can tell, performed a water wash on the
material! Pure 4-AD is white as snow, absolutely colorless, and ABSOLUTELY
tasteless… this product is highly colored
and quite bitter (an informal way of seeing
how impure it is.)

There is no way on Earth I would
inject that stuff. (The nor-4-AD, by the way,
is even worse.)

There is far higher grade material available,
but not I think to individuals, that is as high
as 98% pure, is colorless, and absolutely
tasteless, and so far as I can tell very nice
stuff… but still not intended by the manufacturer for injection. It’s a material
that I would consider a good starting material for further cleanup/sterilization
in a laboratory however.

In other words, I would forget this whole
idea. Especially because you can already
deliver more AD into your system with Androsol
than what you’d probably be choosing to inject, and do this at a pretty
reasonable price. Injecting would not give
more results.

A company called Fitness Labs sells 4-AD that is tasteless and very white. However, I wouldn’t fuck around with injecting it unless you’re sure you know what you’re doing. Another option would be to snort the stuff, however I wouldn’t recommend doing this too often. NEVER snort the 4-AD from Substrate Solutions. This stuff is very bitter and impure. I snorted this stuff once, and my nasal passages felt like they were on fire for a week! Another “back door” is to shove the capsules up your ass. However, I think it’s easier, more comfortable, less painful, and more effective to just use the Androsol instead of playing games with the orals. If you’re going to take orals, stack them with Androsol, and take 300mgs orally before your workout.

Snorting the 4-AD powder isn’t effective
unless the 4-AD has been complexed with
beta-hydroxypropyl cyclodextrin. Sure, you’ll
get it into your nose, but it will just
stay as undissolved particles until it
eventually escapes one way or another.

It’s good that there’s somebody selling
the high quality 4-AD to the consumer in
a powder form. The oral form is not too
useful except in very high doses, like
500 mg four times per day, and that was
just not something that could be recommended
with the grossly impure stuff generally available.

The complete lack of integrity of a company
that would manufacture and sell for human consumption such an impure and nasty product, not taking
even the simplest steps other manufacturers
use to clean it up, really sickens me. But there are all sort of people in this industry, unfortunately.

Thanks guys. I figured it may be possible with animals kit. I’ve done the androsol and finasol, but I am always wondering if I am wiping it off.

the source I have for 4-AD in bulk claims that the lab assay is 99.08%. the andro is supposes to be a “white like, crystyalline powder”

We’ll skip over the fact that you can deliver
all the 4-AD you want transdermally with far
less bother, and just focus on the “what if”
you nonetheless wanted to inject it.

You would not want to inject it as an oil
solution, but as a suspension. The reason
is that a solution would provide 4-AD in
a form giving a very short half life. This
is why ONLY esters of testosterone are
provided in oil: not testosterone itself,
even though testosterone has enough solubility
in oil to permit an oil solution preparation.
The half life was shown to be a matter of only
hours, and so this was not considered usable
for a pharmaceutical drug: hence the esters.

4-AD would have the same problem but possibly even moreso.

A suspension allows slow release because the
microcrystals dissolve slowly.

The solubility
of 4-AD in pure oil is less than 15 mg/mL,
though it may be higher in oil that contains
some benzyl alcohol.

Animal’s kit would not be suitable because
whatever does dissolve would as explained
above have a very short life, necessitating
that you inject a few times per day, and
what doesn’t dissolve, would have a particle
size much too large for injection.

I do have a technology that may work (I"ve
tried all but the actual injection into
self) for conveniently preparing a suspension
at home, but sorry, I’m going to hold out…
maybe Brock and I will make a product with it,
or in any case, I’m 100.000% convinced that
there is no rational reason to inject 4-AD.

If it were not possible to achieve sufficient blood levels at reasonable cost from other
more convenience methods of delivery, then
it might be different… but it is possible
and well-proven. I don’t understand this
concern you have about Androsol accidentally
wiping off. Doesn’t happen. It forms a very
tight bonded film, and all our lab tests
results are most certainly from subjects
wearing clothes all day and being active
after application. It’s not an issue.

that more than clears it up for me, bill. thanks.