T Nation

4-AD-EC + 1-AD-EC + A1-EC Tabs

How effective are these in comparison to the liquid delivery system of MAG-10?

I got 4 free bottles of Twinlab’s Andro Nitrate3 Fuel in which each tab contains a 100mg complex of:

4AD-EC, 1-AD-EC, A1-EC, and a stabilizing agent called 3-hydroxypregn-5-en-20-one

It also contains minor amounts of Arginine.

The bottle says to use 1 tab/day max but this would be 1/3 dose of MAG-10 which I don’t feel is effective for building muscle. These products include the same ingredients but I’m not sure how much 1-AD-EC and A1-EC are in each one.

Since I have 240 tabs now I’ve thought about adding 2 tabs/day in addition to my MAG-10 or 4-AD-EC or using it instead at about 4-6 tabs/day.

To clarify:

1-AD-EC is 1-androstenediol ethlycarbonate

and

A1-EC is 17beta-hydroxy-androst-1-ene-3-one ethlycarbonate ester or “Androst-1-ene”

I understand that the 1-AD-EC doesn’t provide much conversion to its active compound Androst-1-ene so it could be that this product is essentially a 4-AD-EC tab depending on how the mg’s are spread out.

I also understand that the EC’s of the compounds allow the user to take less in comparison to a regular 4-AD or 1-AD product. But, this tab product has the EC’s so I’m curious about the delivery system.

Anyone?

These aren’t going to be as good as Mag-10 due to the fact that there is no delivery system. Because the compounds aren’t encased in liposomes, there isn’t going to be good absorption.

The EC modification doesn’t help in getting passed the liver, it’s the liposome.

Just thought of some other stuff to say. My last post was a bit too general.

The 1-AD has good bioavailability. So the EC modification should be an improvement upon regular 1-AD. From what I’ve seen, the reviews about this are very mixed. Also, if you’re prone to hairloss it’s generally a good idea to stay away from this compound.

4-AD does not have good bioavailability and the EC modificiation shouldn’t do much, if anything at all, to improve upon this.

A1E (aka 1-test) I believe, has a subpar bioavailability, but is higher than 4-AD.

So you might see some gains from this if dosed high enough. But again, hairloss might be a problem. Also, 1-test (remember 1-AD converts to 1-test) when taken alone can make you feel very tired and lethargic. Being that 4-AD is not very orally active, I doubt you’ll be getting enough from this product alone to negate the lethargy.

Hope this helps.

Derek

Derek, I’m not sure where you got that information but Bill Roberts has stated that:

  1. 1-AD has only moderate conversion to Androst-1-ene.

  2. 4-AD-EC has excellent bioavailability.

  3. A1-E has excellent bioavailability.

If 2 & 3 were not true, then why is MAG-10 such a good product?

Also, none of the compounds are hard on the hair from what I’ve read. In my case, it wouldn’t matter anyway :slight_smile:

Ok, here we go.

Your points:

  1. No where did I say how effective 1-AD was at converting to A1E. I simply said that it does convert to A1E. It also converts to DHT.

  2. 4-AD-EC does not have “excellent bioavailability”. If it does, then why didn’t Biotest just make Mag-10 a powder in a capsule? It would’ve been a lot cheaper that way for both parties.

  3. Same arguement as #2.

Mag-10 is a good product because of the “liquid delivery system” combined with the EC modification. The combination of these gives the compounds improved bioavailability and prolonged action, respectively.

To further prove my point:

If ester modifications made bioavailability so high, then why would users of steroids with ester chains attached to them go through the trouble of injection?

Derek,

Good points.

If you know, what are the ingredients used or technology that makes the liquid delivery system more effective in terms of improving bioavailability? I realize Biotest would not reveal their liquid delivery system in order protect the products. Both MAG-10 and the free stuff I got contain the “stabilizing agent” and I agree with you and have always thought that the liquid delivery system was superior to capsule form. Maybe I should just ditch the stuff and continue w/ what has always worked.

Concerning the conversion to DHT these are Bill Roberts words:

“These are prohormones, though ineffective ones, of 17beta-hydroxy-androst-1-ene-3-one, or Androst-1-ene for short. This is a very cool steroid, if you get enough of it in the system. It?s two or three times as potent as Testosterone, but it doesn?t convert to estrogen or DHT. And it?s a legal, natural product. Androst-1-ene is really the premier Class I legal steroid.”

The main thing to look at here is the product that he is talking about. I believe in the ingredients and they are liscensed by Biotest, but this particular product doesnt tell you how much of each ingredient you are getting. It says its a complex of 100mg of all these together. Sounds like andro poppers to me, they have the good ingredients only the least amount of the best ones. And plus for what you pay for the tabs you may end up only paying a little more for Mag-10 through certain sources. Besides Twinlab has some contract now with only marketing these products to GNC- If they are that great why would they limit themselves.

I have some questions though if anyone can answer them. 1. Because something doesnt “convert” to estrogen does that still mean that your body wont produce more of it due to any increase in test?
2. And when it doesnt “convert” to DHT does that still mean that more of the natural test you produce wont. Basically I want to know is that just because something doesnt directly convert to something does that mean your are still protected from it.

DaStudent,

I got them for free, otherwise I would not consider using them since I have had much success w/ MAG-10 and 4-AD-EC made by Biotest.

The ingredients do NOT increase your testosterone, but your androgen levels. Your body does not produce more testosterone from taking these compounds therefore estrogen is not an issue.

Im sorry, Im a little confused here. I thought that 1Test was 1Test and not an androgen. And I was under the impression that androgens increased your test levels, am I wrong? I thought that androgens worked well because they were the first thing to “converted” to test. You know the whole (Cholesterol->Pregnonelone->dhea->andro->test) conversion. And also that 1AD had to be “converted” by the liver to 1Test. Where with 1Test there is no “conversion”. Help me out here guys. To say that these products do not increase your test, is this true? Am I completely wrong in my assumptions.

The fact you are saying “1Test” validates your confusion. Read Bill Robert’s stuff on the forum and an article in issue 178 for an explanation of the compound that was termed 1Test by a sleazy company.