4-4 Strong Words

Off Topic
21

[quote]pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I think she uses Jolly Jack not as an example of a smart killer but merely as an example that men are capable of great and senseless violence and women are not. I find this insulting to men.

Yes, I understand what she means by it, but the irony is that everyone knows who Mozart and Jack the Ripper are, but if you ask around, just about no one knows who Camille Paglia is. Neither can anyone, off the top of their head, name a famous female composer or famous female serial killer. On my informal test of one person at the office, I got “C?line Dion” and “Cruella De Ville”… WTF???

And of course the passion that makes men killers can also make the geniuses. Women of course cannot be geniuses. This is insulting to women.

That’s why it seems that she’s (inadvertently maybe) saying that men are capable of greater passions than women are.

She might be right too.[/quote]

Cruella De’ville was one bad bitch. She had her own theme song and everything. She would have gotten away with it too if it weren’t for those pesky kids and those 101 dogs.

22

I call for a witch hunt. Who’s with me?

23


Cruella after surgery to become a young latino woman with big teeth.

24

[quote]pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Exactly. She manages to insult both men and women with one quote and she gets it wrong.

I thonk TC needs to put away his Big Book of Paglia Quotes and Witticisms.

I don’t see what’s insulting to men about it. She’s saying that good or bad, some men accomplish memorable things. The only ones insulted by it should be women as they’re the ones who, according to Paglia, can’t attain greatness.[/quote]

This is how I interpreted it as well. It’s a compliment to men in a strange sort of way. This one had me scratching my head, but then again, TC is real good about getting you to scratch things.

25

[quote]Professor X wrote:
…

Cruella De’ville was one bad bitch. She had her own theme song and everything. She would have gotten away with it too if it weren’t for those pesky kids and those 101 dogs. [/quote]

Cruella De’ville, Cruella De’ville
If she doesn’t scare you
No evil thing will…

My kids listen to their Disney Villians CD all the time. It is awesome.

The Gaston song rules too.

26

Maybe the point of the quote is that to attain fame/infamy requires a certain amount of freedom. Since women were thrust into narrow (albeit important) roles for the majority of human history, they were able to reach neither the lofty heights of a Mozart nor the spiteful depths of a Jack the Ripper. We’ve yet to see the potential of women as they’ve been living a circumscribed existence.

Even if the words aren’t overly inspiring or intellectual, at least they make you think.

27

[quote]pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I think she uses Jolly Jack not as an example of a smart killer but merely as an example that men are capable of great and senseless violence and women are not. I find this insulting to men.

Yes, I understand what she means by it, but the irony is that everyone knows who Mozart and Jack the Ripper are, but if you ask around, just about no one knows who Camille Paglia is. Neither can anyone, off the top of their head, name a famous female composer or famous female serial killer. On my informal test of one person at the office, I got “C?line Dion” and “Cruella De Ville”… WTF???

And of course the passion that makes men killers can also make the geniuses. Women of course cannot be geniuses. This is insulting to women.

That’s why it seems that she’s (inadvertently maybe) saying that men are capable of greater passions than women are.

She might be right too.[/quote]

The reason no one can name a past female composer is society did not let women do such activities. There are plenty of modern day female composers and song writers. None of them are at Mozarts level but then again there are no modern male composers at Mozarts level.

Now if she wanted to discuss the lack of female mathmeticians she might have a point. Or get fired.

28

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
None of them are at Mozarts level but then again there are no modern male composers at Mozarts level.

[/quote]

That is a very large statement and assumption. Would Mozart be considered a “genius” today? Not likely. Most people would never even listen to his music. To say there are no great composers and song writers is to degrade every current form of music. There are some great song writers and “composers” that have been spawned out of the popular culture of the last 50 years. I mean, won’t people be listening to Stevie Wonder 50 years from now? I would imagine so. What about Ray Charles? Eric Clapton? I personally think Sting is a good song writer along with Baby Face. Would anyone even listen to Mozart today if he just came out with his first CD?

29

[quote]CaptainLogic wrote:
…

Even if the words aren’t overly inspiring or intellectual, at least they make you think.[/quote]

That is a cop out.

TC, I don’t want to be forced to think!

I want strong words like “Hulk Smash!!”

30

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
None of them are at Mozarts level but then again there are no modern male composers at Mozarts level.

That is a very large statement and assumption. Would Mozart be considered a “genius” today? Not likely. Most people would never even listen to his music. To say there are no great composers and song writers is to degrade every current form of music. There are some great song writers and “composers” that have been spawned out of the popular culture of the last 50 years. I mean, won’t people be listening to Stevie Wonder 50 years from now? I would imagine so. What about Ray Charles? Eric Clapton? I personally think Sting is a good song writer along with Baby Face. Would anyone even listen to Mozart today if he just came out with his first CD?[/quote]

While I enjoy all of the artists listed their music is a few steps backward from the sophisticated works of the greats of the past.

Mozart would not sell today, that is why it is unfair to compare modern male or female composers to him and his work.

31

[quote]CaptainLogic wrote:
Maybe the point of the quote is that to attain fame/infamy requires a certain amount of freedom. Since women were thrust into narrow (albeit important) roles for the majority of human history, they were able to reach neither the lofty heights of a Mozart nor the spiteful depths of a Jack the Ripper. We’ve yet to see the potential of women as they’ve been living a circumscribed existence.

Even if the words aren’t overly inspiring or intellectual, at least they make you think.[/quote]

Another theory that has been advanced is that along the “bell curve” of talent/IQ/etc, men have more representatives at each extremities than women do. The nurturing, caregiver role of women requires them to be more “stable” than men, and as such, they tend to have less geniuses but also less complete morons; which gets us back to Camille Paglia’s quote. She just chose a “bad” moron example.

I’ve personally noted that among all the people I know, all those who are truly obsessive about a hobby are men. I know a few women who are into yoga, or scrapbooking, but the time they devote to those activities is a lot “saner” than the time another acquaintance of mine spends on his cars (he races in CASCAR events…) His wife has left him and he’s in rather large debt over his “hobby” but he’d die rather than stop racing.

32

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Cruella after surgery to become a young latino woman with big teeth.[/quote]

You gotta stop posting all those family pictures.

33

I can see that some of those responding to Ms. Paglia’s quote are not familiar with her works. She is indeed a lesbian, but a self-styled anti-feminist who frequently praises the qualities of manly men, and who argures that much of the beauty and goodness in modern industrial societies is due to the works of manly men. She is, in short, very much a friend of testosterone, and has surely tarred others with descriptors such as “estrogen soaked”. She cites the Rolling Stones’ “Sympathy for the Devil” as the greatest rock song, and, although I don’t know this, I bet she also likes “Only the Good Die Young.” To anyone familiar with her work, the meaning of the quote is clear – That although some might denounce the masculinity that informs the evil actions of Jack the Ripper, it is this same masculine force that allows for the creation of our culture’s most beautiful works, and that these two sides of masculinity are irrevicably linked.

“Strong Words” could do much worse than to quote her more often. Look her up sometime.

34

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…

Cruella De’ville was one bad bitch. She had her own theme song and everything. She would have gotten away with it too if it weren’t for those pesky kids and those 101 dogs.

Cruella De’ville, Cruella De’ville
If she doesn’t scare you
No evil thing will…

My kids listen to their Disney Villians CD all the time. It is awesome.

The Gaston song rules too.[/quote]

“rules” is an incredible understatement for how amazingly awesome both his song, and Gaston himself, is.

Anyway, I don’t have any useful input into this thread that hasn’t been spoken already. I look forward to a new Strong Words…

35

[quote]gojira wrote:
Monica Lewinsky:
(On CNN’s “Larry King Live”, discussing her miraculous weight loss) I’ve learned not to put things in my mouth that are bad for me.
[/quote]

Cool quotes, but this one is an urban legend.

36

I understood the quote as a restatement of a confirmed fact - men represent a much bigger spead on pretty much any scale, be it intelligence or violence. Most genuises and retards are/were men. Biggest warriors and peace-makers are/were men.

37

I have not heard from or read anything of hers in quite a while, but she took on the femi-nazi’s of the 70-80 and early 90’s. She took particularly strong exception to the Yellow Springs, Ohio branch campus of Antioch University that had such rules as:

Before a man looks at a woman, he must get her permission.

If a man kisses a woman without her express permission, it constitutes forced sex.

Before condeming her with such passion over a quote taken out of context, it is much better to read some of her stuff before blasing away.

38

[quote]pookie wrote:
CaptainLogic wrote:
Maybe the point of the quote is that to attain fame/infamy requires a certain amount of freedom. Since women were thrust into narrow (albeit important) roles for the majority of human history, they were able to reach neither the lofty heights of a Mozart nor the spiteful depths of a Jack the Ripper. We’ve yet to see the potential of women as they’ve been living a circumscribed existence.

Even if the words aren’t overly inspiring or intellectual, at least they make you think.

Another theory that has been advanced is that along the “bell curve” of talent/IQ/etc, men have more representatives at each extremities than women do. The nurturing, caregiver role of women requires them to be more “stable” than men, and as such, they tend to have less geniuses but also less complete morons; which gets us back to Camille Paglia’s quote. She just chose a “bad” moron example.

I’ve personally noted that among all the people I know, all those who are truly obsessive about a hobby are men. I know a few women who are into yoga, or scrapbooking, but the time they devote to those activities is a lot “saner” than the time another acquaintance of mine spends on his cars (he races in CASCAR events…) His wife has left him and he’s in rather large debt over his “hobby” but he’d die rather than stop racing.

[/quote]

I don’t know. There are plenty of women who like to “shop,” as if shopping were an activity or hooby. They don’t really need anything - the goal is to browse and/or spend money. It’s shopping for the sake of shopping. This can get mighty expensive.

On the other hand, when I worked at a golf course in college I saw guys there nearly every day after work and ALL weekend. Every month they’d buy a new club or clubs. As if the cost of playing and equipment weren’t enough, they’d lose money gambling. I wonder how many of these guys are still married.

I guess guys do get carried away with hobbies. I’m definitely carried away with this whole strength training thing since I’m on here discussing stuff every damn day, but at least it’s a healthy activity and not all that expensive compared to other hobbies. And the equipment is basic stuff that can last a lifetime. Unlike the guy who’s constantly looking for the latest and greatest set of golf clubs hoping to improve his game, a barbell is a barbell, differences in quality notwithstanding.

“I use antlers for all of my decorating.”

39

Chicken & Egg question:

If women aren’t inferior to men, but have simply been repressed by men throughout human history, how did they come to be repressed in the first place?

So, what came first, the repression or the inferiority (whether existing naturally or imposed)? Obviously, some inferiority had to exist before the repression could be enacted.

Women are men with no balls and 1cm-long penises. Everything boils down to hormones.

40

Is Gaston the ultimate T-Man? gotta love his attitude, and catchy tune

How do we know Jack the Ripper was a man? Might have been Jackie the Ripper.

Mozart was from a time where it was far less likely that the same efforts to teach / incourage women were very unlikely. There may have been many potential female Mozarts, all lost. There may be many potential female / male Mozarts now, but they have been distracted and pursued other things. Also, Mozart really loved to party - it takes bugger all money these days to party hard like him. A normal job will do it. So lots of people who could aspire to that level never will. And neither would he, today, without his dad driving him on, or even with his dad driving him on, he’d achieve a lot, quickly, fame and riches would go to his head as a kid and he would party himself out, man.

I know a lot of top classical musicians / composers and that pretty much sums them up. They play, get paid, and party like you wouldn’t believe. Women too.

So maybe the problem is a combination of modern day society now conducive to creating great genius [in a field that most of society knows about such as music] + the fact that when society did produce such talent, it was a male dominated society.

Note that there are many brilliant people beyond Mozart both male and female that the general public will never hear about. Because they are not in the fields of popular entertainment.