T Nation

3x5 or 5 3 1


#1

Hey guys, ive been training as bodybuilder for a year or so but now want to train for strength and power. I look at stronglift and starting strength and all that and seen all those 3xday workouts, but i want to train 4 days a week. So i was wondering, am i on the right track with this power and strength thing? i was thinking of something like this:

Monday
Squat 3x5 (ramping weight)
Bench 3x6-10
Barbell Row 3x5 (ramping weight)
Skull Crushers 3x5

Wednesday
Military Press 3x5 (ramping weight)
Deadlift 1x5 (ramping weight)
Pull Ups 3xMAX

Friday
Bench 3x5 (ramping weight)
Squat 3x8
Barbell Row 3x6-10

Saturday
Power Cleans, High Pulls 5x3 ???? Which is better
Good Mornings/GHR 3x6-10
Barbell Curls 3x6-10
Side Laterals 3x6-10

Is this 3x5 system the way to go with this?? I made a power and hypertrophy day for bench squat barbell row military press and deadlift, 5x5 being power, 3x6-10 for hypertrophy. The hypertrophy work will be 90% of my highest set of 5 for that week, so im constantly lifting heavier every week for both lifts.

So, would this work better for strength,power and hypertrophy. Or Wendlers 5 3 1 BBB template

Would really appreciate you guys help, i respect this sit a lot!


Heavy Bench and Squat Twice/Wk?
Heavy Bench and Squat Twice/Wk?
#2

[quote]roger1111 wrote:
Hey guys, ive had a good look at 5 3 1 and bought the book online but i dont think im ready for it just yet. Ive been training as bodybuilder for a year or so but now want to train for strength and power. Ive read that doing basic barbell exercises but progressing in weight will help me with this. I look at stronglift and starting strength and all that and seen all those 3xday workouts, but i want to train 4 days a week. So i was wondering, am i on the right track with this power and strength thing? i was thinking of something like this:

Bench 5x5
Barbell Row 5 x 5
Rear Delt Raise 2 or 3x6-10

Deadlift 1x5
Military Press 5x5
Barbell Curl 5x5
Side Laterals 3x6-10

Incline/Flat DB Bench 3 x 6-10
Pull ups 3 x MAX
Skull Crushers 3 x 6-10

Squats 5x5
GHR or Good Mornings 3x6-10
Shrugs 3x6-10

Is this 5x5 system the way to go with this??

Would really appreciate you guys help, i respect this sit a lot![/quote]

I might not be advanced enough to write something up myself but i really want to concentrase on basic barbell exercises. Just a few additions for volume and to help on my bench like db press, tricep work


#3

Why don’t you think you’re ready for 5/3/1?


#4

[quote]Meal Ticket wrote:
Why don’t you think you’re ready for 5/3/1?[/quote]
I just want to get a basic power strength first then i can use 5 3 1. Is what i wrote alright?


#5

I think strong lifts was very beneficial for me. Proper squats, deadlifts, and the press were new exercises and doing them a couple times a week helped me get the hang of them. Also, throw powercleans or hang cleans in the routine.

Milk SS or SL for as long as you can because progress is a little slower on 5/3/1.


#6

Just throwing this out there, but this was just published. It will get the job done for you. You don’t have nearly enough work for your legs.


#7

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Just throwing this out there, but this was just published. It will get the job done for you. You don’t have nearly enough work for your legs.


Yea ive seen this before but i wasnt really fond of it, more along the lines of SS or SL but i need something 4 day, i found this 4 day starting strength, dunno how good it is but

Intermediate 4 Day Split Template:Edit Intermediate 4 Day Split Template: sectionEdit

Monday (Bench Press and Related Exercises)
Bench Press 5X5 (Sets Across)
(Press Assistance)
Push Press 1X5
or Standing DB Press 2X8
or Kettlebell Jerk 2x8
or KB Push Press 2x8
(alternate among the four)
Chin/Pull Ups 3X12

Tuesday (Squats and Pulling Exercises)
Squats 5X5 (sets across)
Powercleans 5x3 (or Bentover BB Row 3x8)
GHR 5X10

Thursday (Press and Related Exercises)
Standing Press 5X5 (sets across)
(Bench Press Assistance)
DB Bench 3X6-12 (add weight when you get all 12)
Chin/Pull Ups 3x12

Friday (High Intensity Squat and Deadlift Exercises)
Front Squat 5X3
alternate weekly w/
Back Squat 3x1 or 3x2 or 3x3 (alternate rep scheme)
or
10x2 Box Squats (65% of 5x5 weight)

Bench Press 1x1 (to be done on weeks w/3x1 Front Squats. Eliminate Thursday bench on these weeks)
Deadlift 1X5 (every week)


#8

no need to make this complicated…

day 1
bench press 5x5 + your additional exercises

day2
squat 5x5 + your additional exercises

day 3
overhead press 5x5 + additional

day 4
deadlift + additonal

or basic upper lower split,

day 1
upper body 5x5 :bench, rows, beach work
day 2
lower body 5x5 : squat, leg curls, lunges
day 3
upper body 5x5: overhead/bench , chins , beach work
day 4
lower body 5x5 deadlift/squat (alternate) + goodmornings etc…


#9

[quote]Swashblucker wrote:
no need to make this complicated…

day 1
bench press 5x5 + your additional exercises

day2
squat 5x5 + your additional exercises

day 3
overhead press 5x5 + additional

day 4
deadlift + additonal

or basic upper lower split,

day 1
upper body 5x5 :bench, rows, beach work
day 2
lower body 5x5 : squat, leg curls, lunges
day 3
upper body 5x5: overhead/bench , chins , beach work
day 4
lower body 5x5 deadlift/squat (alternate) + goodmornings etc…[/quote]
this makes sense, so doing it the way i made it wont work? i cant mix deadlift with pressing and that like bill starr’s program?


#10

Your program isn’t terrible, but I definitely don’t think its great…you have very little work for the posterior chain, zero ab work, and some bullshit exercises for delts…seriously, delts are probably my most prominent bodypart (aside from my squatter glutes) and I don’t think I would even know how to perform a rear dealt raise…

To your credit, you put the bullshit work at the end of your program and have done a good job at making the big compound barbell exercises the meat and potatoes of your workout, but I think it could use some work…

I question two things in your motive:
-Why do you think you’re not ready for 5-3-1? As long as you have some experience weight training, I think it is an excellent program that can be suited for your needs. I don’t think its good for rank beginners because their progress is just way too quick as they learn proper lifting form and neurally adapt, so the 5-10 pound/month recommendation is just too low…but for someone with a proper background that isn’t god awful weak should be fine on it
-Why do you insist that you must train 4 days a week? If you are hell bent on doing this, do something like the proper SS or 5x5 and just go in on the 4th day and hammer your back, biceps, calves, and abs…sort of a “catch all” type of day…you can even do those bullshit exercises for your delts if you want! Or do a day of sprints/conditioning…just something if you really want to tickle your OCD fancy…


#11

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Your program isn’t terrible, but I definitely don’t think its great…you have very little work for the posterior chain, zero ab work, and some bullshit exercises for delts…seriously, delts are probably my most prominent bodypart (aside from my squatter glutes) and I don’t think I would even know how to perform a rear dealt raise…

To your credit, you put the bullshit work at the end of your program and have done a good job at making the big compound barbell exercises the meat and potatoes of your workout, but I think it could use some work…

I question two things in your motive:
-Why do you think you’re not ready for 5-3-1? As long as you have some experience weight training, I think it is an excellent program that can be suited for your needs. I don’t think its good for rank beginners because their progress is just way too quick as they learn proper lifting form and neurally adapt, so the 5-10 pound/month recommendation is just too low…but for someone with a proper background that isn’t god awful weak should be fine on it
-Why do you insist that you must train 4 days a week? If you are hell bent on doing this, do something like the proper SS or 5x5 and just go in on the 4th day and hammer your back, biceps, calves, and abs…sort of a “catch all” type of day…you can even do those bullshit exercises for your delts if you want! Or do a day of sprints/conditioning…just something if you really want to tickle your OCD fancy…[/quote]
thanks for your comment! the only reason i chucked in rear delt and that is because ive been using it most my training and built them up and looked really stupid with no rear delt lol so i put it in at the end just for some isolation. but if its not a big deal it can be taken out. i also do abs on my off/cardio days so thats why i didnt chuck them in there, my mistake. do you think i would be able to do 5 3 1? just wanted to put up my strength decently quick for a bit then start something like 5 3 1. i looked at the BBB and its looks good. I was actually considering doing a 3 day program then adding an extra day. would you recomend a 3 day 5x5 program with an extra day, 5 3 1 BBB or my program without the delt work and more posterior chain movements?


#12

I would just modify 5-3-1 to suit my needs. You seem to want to be strong and still keep in a lot of hypertrophy work for your pretty muscles. This article is for you:

Scroll to bottom. Implement the given program. Kick ass. Be awesome.


#13

5/3/1 for powerlifting has a template with heavy assistance work, I am using it now and Im loving it, it allows me to have my cake and eat it.


#14

I’m just gonna throw this out there. Delt isolation work is helping my shoulder health. Especially working the posterior and medial delts.


#15

I’m just gonna throw this out there. Delt isolation work is helping my shoulder health. Especially working the posterior and medial delts.


#16

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I would just modify 5-3-1 to suit my needs. You seem to want to be strong and still keep in a lot of hypertrophy work for your pretty muscles. This article is for you:

Scroll to bottom. Implement the given program. Kick ass. Be awesome.[/quote]
Na i dont care about my muscles that much to do that program lol i only really care about big barbell exercises but i made one power and hypertrophy day cause ive seen a few programs like that and i was thinking that it would be a good way to keep putting weight on the bar instead of doing 2 5x5 days like SS and stalling. was i wrong?


#17

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
5/3/1 for powerlifting has a template with heavy assistance work, I am using it now and Im loving it, it allows me to have my cake and eat it.[/quote]
Yeah mate i really like the BBB template, thats the one id do if i was doing it. Should i try the workout i wrote for a bit and if i dont see progress on my lifts ill just do the BBB template?


#18

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

Yeah mate i really like the BBB template, thats the one id do if i was doing it. Should i try the workout i wrote for a bit and if i dont see progress on my lifts ill just do the BBB template?[/quote]

5/3/1 is proven, why not use that? If you are really considering all those options, I’d recommend the 5/3/1 BBB. I’m ramping up to start 5/3/1 again, and I may never leave it again. You can vary your assistance work so much, you can really work strength year round and change up assistance to hit hypertrophy, endurance, explosiveness, whatever.


#19

[quote]jsposato wrote:

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

Yeah mate i really like the BBB template, thats the one id do if i was doing it. Should i try the workout i wrote for a bit and if i dont see progress on my lifts ill just do the BBB template?[/quote]

5/3/1 is proven, why not use that? If you are really considering all those options, I’d recommend the 5/3/1 BBB. I’m ramping up to start 5/3/1 again, and I may never leave it again. You can vary your assistance work so much, you can really work strength year round and change up assistance to hit hypertrophy, endurance, explosiveness, whatever.[/quote]Big barbell exercises like bill starr 5x5 is proven too, but im very much considering BBB cause of the reasons you said.


#20

Has anyone tried madcows 5x5 with good progress???