T Nation

39 Yr Old Facing Andropause Symptoms


#1

It was great finding this site and the deep accurate information I found here!

I (39 yr old male) have read all the stickies (maybe not with 100% retention) and am having some issues:

  • for last 1+ year low libido, no wood at all, eventhough I was on a cycle or two in that time - still no libido (!!) (was not on anything heavy - max was 750mg Sust 250/week)
  • in the last 3 months it has gotten worse -> now even with the smallest amount of physical exertion I break into a sweat and can see in pics that my face is flushed red; this has made me socially withdraw and stop going dancing. I could relate to most of the symptoms attributed to Andropause
  • had a banging hot g/f but we hardly had sex in the last year, broke up 2 months ago

After my last cycle, I did a PCT with HCG, Nolva and Clomid.

Some test results:
*Jan 2017, well after my last cycle; very comprehensive tests:

  • E2 40.6 (0-39.8 is the range) --> BAD
  • SHBG 73.8 (14-48) --> BAD
  • Test Free 14.4 (4.25 -30.37)
  • Testosterone 578.9 (241-827)
  • everything else like Thyroids, etc were normal

*17/05/2017 (last week) - a good 6 weeks after I did another PCT; smaller set of tests

  • LH - 15.6 (1.7-8.6 is the range) --> BAD
  • FSH 19.8 (1.5-12.4) --> BAD
  • Serum testosterone 21.6 (7.6 - 31.4) - surprisingly high! To do with my high LH?
  • TSH was 1.05 (ref range: 0.27 – 4.2)
  • free t4 14.8 (12.0-22.0)
  • Vit D was previously low (Jan 2017) and I was put on high Vit D for a few weeks; Vit D was not tested again
  • everything else (CBC, Liver, Renal, Iron, Lipids, etc) were normal

I used to have one very sensitive testicle all my life but worryingly now it is not sensitive!

The other revelation I had after reading these forums was that about 1+ year ago, on a boozish night out (I dont drink anymore), I really badly hurt my head (no idea how - it was on the top back of my head … I fell down? I blacked out and woke up in my bed with traces of blood on the pillow, bedsheet, shirt, hair, head, etc). I went to hospital and got it all checked out and was given the all ok … but I feel that my libido problems started around then and also I feel dizzier easier than before when I am physically manipulated, yoga, etc. Could be a red herring.

I am still taking 3-4IU HGH EOD (does that affect LH and FSH? wouldn’t think so). I was taking 1-2.5mg of Finnastride ED but stopped that about a month ago.

I saw my GP (UK) yesterday and she has referred me to an Andrologist - but am looking at around 3 months for my first appointment and then probably another 3 months before there are any findings after another set of tests.

Are there any suggestions, tips I can try meanwhile - so I can get back in the dating game, I am almost house bound due to the heavy sweating issue.

I really hope I don’t have to go into TRT for life :frowning: (but the 10 week steroid cycle had no effect on me so not sure TRT will help)

Just wanted to add that I do feel colder than normal these days (when in the apartment) but at the same time I feel hotter than normal when out an about - even minimal physical activities.

My eyebrows are thinning on the extremeties. I don’t eat much salt at all for most of my life … I also feel for the first time I am putting weight on my face - never ever happened before.

I have ordered an oral thermometer


#2

Head damage can damage the pituitary!

Face puffy from E2.
E2 may be elevated from low liver clearance. Can be liver problem or medications that compete for the same enzyme pathways that clear liver. More E2 increases SHBG and the more non-bioavailable SHBG+T inflates TT and TT then overstates your T status. FT is not tested there. More SHBG reduces FT.

Also, your high LH can lead to a lot of T–>E2 inside the testes. Your labs are suggesting that you still have SERMs in your body.

Please describe PCT in detail, doses too.

Welcome to the best TRT forum anywhere.

We can provide good support here for your hormone concerns.
Please do not post your case details in the stickies.
Create a thread for you. The title will stay with you for a long time, choose wisely.
Please keep all of your postings in your case in one thread so we have context.

Most of the knowledge here is in the stickies.
Please read these stickies to investigate your concerns before posting.

Your hormone health involves multiple hormones and hormone systems. Keep an open mind to other ‘factors’ in your health and don’t have T Tunnel Vision.

Please read all of this post and note the last paragraph.

Advice for New Guys)

  • note the first paragraph
  • we need more info about you
  • this sticky provides concepts and definition you need to understand the ‘language’ of TRT.

Above is suggested minimum reading.


- the biggest issue in TRT is finding a knowledgeable doctor

If you want to understand the scale of the problems with doctors, read this:

  • many guys here also have thyroid/iodine issues

Sometimes guys ask for something to show their doc re use of hCG: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260550 and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15713727

KSman is a retired Engineer. That means that KSman is not a doctor. However, KSman does know more about these issues than most doctors. In this forum, you will, frustratingly, probably acquire a better understanding of these issues than your doctor has. You will then have the convictions to seek the hormone care that you need. You have to manage your own healthcare; you cannot be passive. When you are given medical advice, for better or worse, you must filter that through your doctor. KSman has an attitude about doctors, you will begin to understand why.


#3

Had I known your PCT protocol back then, I would have definitely followed that.

Yes the head bump is really worrying me… Hope no permanent damage to pituitary gland.

My pct was:
Hcg 2000iu E3D - 10 shots
Nolvadex 20mg ED
Proviron 150mg ED 4weeks - more or less

Once I finish the hcg:

Clomid 100mg ED 2weeks
Clomid 50mg ED 3weeks
Clomid 25mg ED 2weeks
Clomid 25mg EOD 2weeks
Nolvadex 10mg ED

It has been well over a month (maybe even two months?) Since I finished my PCT - still in my blood? Remembering that shbg/e2 test were in-between my cycle and pct. Lh/fsh was about 2 months after. 1 month since stopping finnastride.


#4

ok did the temp as well as I could - these numbers are scary and I am now even more worried - surprised that the readings are so low (I am rrying to lose weight, and have lost arnd 25 kgs -> maybe that is the reason for low readings? Any advice appreciated :persevere: Looks like I will have to pay for my own blood tests - so any suggestions for comprehensive blood tests appreciated. I mean SHBG, FTH, etc -> the standard ones I will do

Day Morning Afternoon Night
1 95.54/35.3 - 97.52/36.4
2 94.82/34.9 94.46/34.7 95/35.0
3 96.98/36.1 - 95/35.0
4 96.08/35.6 96.26/35.7 -

#5

PCT was horrible! But typical for body building steroid forums.

When temperature readings are extreme, we can consider that the $8 thermometer is not reading right, always need to consider errors. Have someone else check their temperature mid-afternoon, if there is a 98.6 reading, you can have confidence in the thermometer. Must not be talking, exercising, eating or drinking for some time.


#6

I bought a much more expensive thermometer and the other original thermometer was only out by about 0.3-0.5 degrees centegrade. here are the new readings:

Day Morning Afternoon Night
1 36.1/96.98 36.2/97.16 36.0/96.8
2 36.0/96.8 36.1/96.98
3 35.9/96.62 35.8/96.44

VERY WORRIED - any tips?


#7

What is your history of using iodized salt or vitamins listing iodine+selenium?

Should have posted this:

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.


#8

I do not eat any salt at all. I take multi vitamins but they don’t have any salt. So I should try to just ingest some salt with iodine I guess… Think I saw this on Amazon after reading your posts on here


#9

Iodized salt was introduced in many countries in 1922 to address the near global problems with iodine deficiency that caused goiters, thyroid disease and mental retardation. Many countries did not implements for ages or messed it up. Iodine is critical to life.

In your vitamins, we are interested in iodine which is often 150mcg and selenim - 200mcg would be excellent.

In UK, they pretend that you can get enough iodine from:
eggs
dairy products
sea food


#10

Went to get my blood test results - it was a horrible experience seeing the Andrologist (Andrologist … pfft) - he basically said as everything is within range there is nothing he can do and nothing needs to be done. I asked him about my raised E2 (here it is 144 pmol/l or 39.1 pg/ml) + low libido + easily breaking out into sweats + flushed red face -> all symptoms that came up in the last 1 year. His explanation was that it was because I was fat as a child (morbidly obese from age 11-15 - then anoexeric, and then maintained my weight mostly although did get up to 125kgs when I was doing a cycle (I am 6’3) - it was a lot of muscles, now back down to 99kgs and look good for my height)). My prolactin is quite high also.

So he is not going to do anything, the most he is prepared to do is refer me to an endocrinologist which will take around 3-4 months to get first appointment + further blood test + follow-up appointment. I also had an ultra-sound done for my testicles, my small precius testies, all was fine. I used to have a cyst but thats gone now the technician said.

Any one can suggest to me what I can do? I am happy to take research chems, sustanon 250, EQ, etc - quite easy to get in the UK. I am not wasting another 4 months of my life - I need to get out there, get my libido back and stop these sweats and get me a girlfriend again and have some quality intimate time :wink:

anastrozole? I keep getting emails from grindstonelabs - hopefully they are legit! Or should I just start a 250mg Sustanon 10 week cycle as well as I have a whole cycle of it waiting around + hgh 2-3iu/day + any other AI support + hgh as needed? I have lost so much muscle and motivation and libido as I have lost 25 kgs in very few months of trying to lose weight to get skinny. Stable at 100kgs now.


#11

very timely article! https://www.t-nation.com/supplements/tip-how-to-increase-your-sex-drive

Yes - I have high SHBG, and high E2/Oestradiol … now what to do about it?

BTW, I was cycle free for months. Was/am taking vits and herbs (e.g. Maca root, ahwagandha, tribulus, ZMA (which should actually fix the problem according to the article, etc)


#12

any feedback?


#14

Hi IT,

it is hard to definitely say if suffered as a result of my finnatride intake or not. I indeed did suffer from several symptoms of taking finnastride on and off for last 10+ years (I think). From 1mg up to 5mg on random occurences. My friend takes the same and for similar time and he says he does not have any symptoms - but he is almost 10 years younger than me too.

I can’t say that any PCT has helped me - I tried already. What I have done is gone full blast on a cycle and atleast my morning erections are back with a vengence. My libido is also improving - cause I am getting flashes of getting turned on again. No spontaneous hard-ons.

I can’t say I know what I am doing so not in a position to advise anybody. All the info about what I am doing, taking, bloods, tests, etc are in my 2-3 threads though. Not sure it will help.