T Nation

38, Tired and Frustrated


Does anyone have any experience with using tongkat ali? Supposedly it is supposed to stimulate the leydig cells similar to hcg and improve sperm quality and sperm production. Wondering if it has any legitimacy as HCG is supposed to be damn expensive and want to trigger the boys from shrinking anymore and crawling back up inside.


I went ahead and purchased some tongkat ali to try it out. I took some yesterday after work and immediately felt something with in 10 minutes but probably was a placebo effect. I felt energized right off but reason I believe it may have been placebo was it was so god awful tasting I think it just woke me up lol. I did have some dreams last night that I remembered and I don’t usually do that but not sure if it was actually from the tongkat. Unfortunately they were not good dreams and woke me up upset and a little anxiety but read for 20-30 min and was able to get back to sleep. This morning I doubled the dose just to see how I respond and feeling pretty good roughly 2 hours later, really awake and ready to go. Again too early for me to say it is actually from the tongkat though. I mostly am taking to see if my testicular atrophy diminishes and will report back on that aspect.


Apparently my E2 has dropped into single digits. I am going to stop AI and not take anymore unless I feel symptoms and probably only take half or .25mg. My blood pressure is still high and I am curious if anyone has ever had blood pressure high with low E. Most things I’ve read says the fluid retention with high E can cause blood pressure spikes but one source stated low E could cause fluid retention also so wondering if it could be caused by that. Hopefully someone can give some insight. Again could be the way he takes my blood pressure, need to verify with someone else taking it though.

My test has dropped back down from 4 weeks ago also, went from around 1000 back down to in the 500’s. When I tested with 1000 I was using 10 clicks of a 10% cream and when I ran out went to 5 clicks of 20% cream which is what I was doing with the test in the 500’s. Essentially should be same dosage but wondering if I am absorbing different due to the different strength of cream, just a theory though. Hoping I’m not just losing absorption. I am now up to 8 clicks and if no improvement or little improvement going to start fighting for injections.

Overall I do feel pretty decent though. Joints are hurting some but I also just got done with a week long of hiking around the mountains hunting so that doesn’t help matters. A little more tired than what I had been but still don’t think I have recovered all my sleep from my hunt either. Like I said though I still feel better than what I was before TRT so still feeling positive.


Body has few mechanisms for retaining water. From my experiences with low E2, yes, one can retain water even with crashed E2.

Different gels can effect with different results ( I have had bad experience and doctor confirmed that individuals responds differently to different gels.)

Fight for injections and learn to self inject. Good luck!


Anyone know what the symptoms of “too low” of DHT is? I tried googling but only got how to lower DHT and a little on if women have lower DHT. I was taking saw palmetto to lower the conversion rate (per my doctors instructions, no symptoms either) and started getting a headache that never went away and started feeling tired more often. I decided to see if it was the possible cause of my feeling lower than previously and stopped taking the saw palmetto. Headache has mostly gone away but still a slight ache still there here and there. Not prone to headaches so bugging me out a little. Still feeling sluggish but not sure if DHT will take a while to rebound. If anyone has had any experience with lowering DHT I would love any insight you might provide.