T Nation

36 Year Old Virgin

Hey Folks,

I am looking to take a stroll into enhanced gains. And there is a lot to know and fucking up seems likes its either a liver transplant or tits. That being said I want to do it.

I am 205, 5’7", lifting for 15 years. DL Max 470lbs, Bench 310, Squat maybe 430 (I have never maxed out on squat).

My body fat is around 17%. I want to cut without losing the strength and mass.

I want to do a test maybe 4-6 weeks of Stanozolol Oral @10mg per day.

Will I need something for liver health? What about Clomid?

I am mainly concerned with managing liver failure and tits.

Is there anything else I am missing that I am not thinking about?

Any better suggestions you may have for a guy new to gear? I want to get this right.

500 mg of Test ethanate split into 2 injections per week. Winny isnt going to give you what you are looking for. You need Test


That’s not enough winstrol for your goals, which is good because you shouldn’t be using it alone anyway. Like Stud said, test only for your first time.


And the award fir wirst cycle this week :trophy::trophy::trophy: wtf who gave you that cycle a 120lb bikini competitor??
Bro thats a snack
Lift, eat & do a ton of research please that was awful

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Thanks for the redirect.

Does 8 weeks sound enough? Should I plan on taking something for PCT?

I suppose I should have everything ready before I start. Would seem like a bad situation to run out in the middle.

8 weeks won’t be enough need 10-12 yes you should always plan a pct maybe try 4 weeks of nolva, or maybe just trying doing a bit more research bro, plenty of 1st time cycle threads in this forum!

Thanks this is part of the research. There are a lot of shit articles out there, and sometimes the quickest way to learn is to just ask people that already now rather than sort through articles and see which ones are good. I have read most of the beginner stuff on the this site and it was really great tbh.

I would be happy to just have like a conversation with someone that can answer my questions and just talk plainly about it. I don’t have friends that do. Some folks at my gym are for sure on gear but I haven’t figured out how to approach them.

I will keep reading and learning until I am 100% confident in what I am doing though. I am not rolling the dice on my liver or my chest.

I do appreciate your feedback too. It is helpful.

Any of the advice given here is usually pretty spot on… no need to weed through it. But you’ve already been given the advice you’ll find on here, 500/test/wk but you don’t like it lol

Based on your stated goals the absolute best advice anyone can give you is to clean up your diet, make sure you’re getting plenty of clean protien, and increase your cardio. Gear is not the answer if all you want to do is cut and that’s as safe as it gets; everything else will come with risk no matter what you do.


What gives you the impression I don’t like it?

I just don’t want to cut. I want to maintain my strength and mass too. I have done the clean eating and protein. I have been doing this for 17 years now.

I am aware of the risk, but I can mitigate it to a large extent by asking questions and learning. Hopefully I will get the answers I need to decide the best way to get this done.

Thanks for your feedback.

OK at first I wanted to find your IP address and look for the bulky guy near it and get in your face about being an asshole.

I reread this again and I actually laughed, but you are still an asshole.

I am not near making any decisions. Talking about it here is part of the research.

Thanks for the feedback though.

You’ve been doing this for 17 years, but your strength + physique doesn’t translate to that, which indicates there’s room for improvement in your programming/diet. As a fellow virgin, I’d recommend keeping your cherry and re-invest your efforts into a clean recomp.

haha well I started out at 140 pounds. But fair points. I am just getting bored and old and want to start cooking with gas. I will take my time and learn. If it seems like I should be grinding normally that’s ok.

At this point though I see studies where people who literally do no workout but take gear get more gains than a person training with a rigorous and effective program it makes me think I should see what it is about.

Those studies are garbage, real world shit (the reason why you are asking people with experience for advice) I know plenty of ppl on gear that look like shit, dont think this is a magic bullet by any means. Diet and training have to be solid

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So here i think is the truest statement so far. Be honest…no one is judging you (that much). You want to hop on gear to see what all the fuss is about…that’s fine; you’re an adult and can do whatever you want. The truth is that a recomp using gear is very difficult for most folks. Steriods build muscle…not burn fat. Do you compete in a strength sport where you need to make weight or maintain a certain level of strength? If not then I would say it’s your ego that’s forcing you to want to cut weight and not loose size or strength. Who cares how much you lift?

Some of the best cutters around here are @BrickHead and @jackolee . Look for some of their logs.

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Shit dude thanks. I will look into those guys. For me it is ego. I am afraid I have more good lifting years in my past than my future. I look at the progress I have made and sure I am strong and confident, but I am not where I want to be either. Life has at times fucked up my program and I am disappointed. So that’s why I am looking around for options.

I will likely start cutting down at the end of summer I have a few months of mass building to do first (maybe now is the time to start gear? heh heh)

I appreciate getting real about this. Perhaps I should be throwing more effort into reading on how to cut without looking like a pencil. Admittedly bulking and strengthening is easy. Eat lots and clean, get protein, lift according to the plan, and rest. Cutting for some reason is a motherfucker for me.

Good feedback there. This is exactly why I asked this question. I really appreciate you framing up this perspective. Fuck I have a lot to think about.

Cutting is hard for me too. I like to eat, food tastes good, I get it. At the end of the day this is how I approach training and cutting; I don’t currently complete, I’ve given some serious thought to entering a powerlifting meeting once I hit 50 (this year); just because it interests me and I would like to say I did it. I’m not an underwear model, I’m already married, my weight (or specifically a cut) is not important for me at the moment. When the time comes that I decide I want to hit 10% bodyfat for some reason I expect to loose some size…it’s just par of the course. The lower bodyfat will give the illusion of size and no one ever cares how much I bench/squat of deadlift anyway…it’s all relative.

Yeah food is good. That is my problem too. I like strength training because it does require a huge attention to be paid to the slice of pizza you decided you wanted or the cookie that some one brought over at a gathering. But yeah after a time you get fat and strong.

I did do a small lifting competition about a year ago. It was a charity event. There were some guys benching 500+ there. That is where I did my 470 DL. It was a lot of fun. I was so jacked up on adrenaline and coffee. I got first overall since most the folks couldn’t dead lift that were benching. I found out a week later that there was a regional competition happening the same day somewhere else, so that’s prolly why I won my group.

I recommend doing it though. It was a fun day. Met some really great people too.