T Nation

34yr Old, Low T. Lots of Info


#1


Here is my story over the last 2 years, hopefully is legible enough. Lots of info but I like to be detailed and would like some input on my injections Protocol.

2012 Was feeling weak and not motivated, always tired, lost all confidence. Have a mildly herniated disc L5 which caused sciatic nerve irritation so I didn't exercise and that pain dragged me down. Chronic headaches in the rear of the head, performed MRI and everything is fine.
AGE 32, height 6'2, weight 230lbs bit overweight.

  1. First Dr ran some blood tests and suggested I start with antidepressants.
    See attachment (1st Page 11/29/2012)

  2. Started using antidepressants for 2 weeks and decided to dig deeper into the issue.

  3. Talked to another Family Dr in the same facility and he suggested we run some Testosterone test (first time I heard of it).
    See attachment (2nd Page 3/22/2013)

  4. Started Testosterone Injections on 4/2/13 with 200mg/week (by mistake it was supposed to be 100mg/week) Doctor prescribed 100mg/1mL but the Pharmacy provided 200mg/1mL, was using double dosage. Ran blood test 6/3/2014.
    See attachment (2nd Page 6/3/2014)

  5. Started injecting correctly 50mg/2x per week on 6/3/2013, felt awesome, great libido and ton of energy.
    See attachment (2nd Page 9/5/2013)

  6. Was walking and jogging and lost 20lbs around August 2013. Decided to start going to the gym and gained 30lbs of muscle (weight 235lbs) by November 2013.

  7. Talked to Doc about stop injecting Testosterone, tapered of slowly over a month and quit injections on 10/17/2013. Noticed a urine flow restriction and groin pain. Found this site and started educating myself.

  8. Started losing energy and feeling weak around February 2014.
    Testicles did return to normal size since I stopped injecting T and groin pain went away, urine flow was restored as well.
    See attachment (2nd Page 2/19/2014)

9.Started injections again 2/20/2014 (Still had a full bottle of Testosterone left over, my family Doc didn't feel comfortable to further treat me and was honest about it so I got referred to an Endo.

  1. Saw Endo 4/12/2014, he ran blood tests, highly suggested to get of injections and switch to Gel. Provided me 2 sample bottles. When I asked about hCG he thought I was talking about HGH and just blew me off. I asked about testicle shrinkage, groin pain and acne on the back, his response was: All of that will get better as soon you switch to Gel Testosterone. Told him to F@#% off and started searching for a new doctor.
    See attachment (3rd Page 4/12/2014)

  2. Started a new job on 3/3/2014, insurance changed and they required 2 Labs with Testosterone to be under 250 before they would cover the cost. New job is a office job, sitting down all day and have less time for gym. Lost some of my muscle and still weight around 230-235lbs.

  3. 5/1/2014 - Found a Specialist on HRT and seems to be very knowledgeable and took his time and actually listened during my first visit. This Doc didn't like the idea of using hCG or Anastrozole, his words: hCG feeds cells and stimulates hormones good and bad ones, it has been linked to cancer. Anastrozole there is just not enough research done on it and he suggested using DIM only. Started 5000IU Vitamin D daily. We agreed to stop injections to get my labs for the insurance and then start treatment. Quit injections for 3 weeks and got the labs done. I would follow his protocol of 50mg 2x week testosterone injections Intramuscular and DIM 2x daily, he also said that injecting Intramuscular give better absorption and less Estrogen conversion.
    See attachment (4th Page 5/1/2014)

  4. 7/19/2014 After following his protocol for 3 month with no improvement, unrine flow restriction and groin pain returned. I decided to start with KSMan protocol. Started 7/21/2014 Testosterone 50mg 2x week Monday morning and Thursday night, 250IU hCG M,W,F and liquid Anastrozole 13 drops M,W,F. Measured 40 drop equal 1mL/1mg.
    Got my hCG and Anstrozole supply online.

  5. Started feeling better in August but still not like I was before, got foggy brain, feel tired. Decided to check my Estradiol levels though LEF/Labcorp on 8/28/2014 and results can be seen in the attachment, wonder if that was the reason for the way I felt.
    See attachment (4th Page 8/28/14)

15.8/29/14 Stopped Anastrozole and continued using DIM, second week already started feeling a little better. Less headaches(headaches in the rear of the head), foggy brain.

  1. Since on hCG the Testicle size has return and urine flow restored, no groin pain either. Feel ok and decent libido.

  2. 9/17/14 Decided to get some labs done now that I've been consistent on dosage for a few months. Went through my Family Doc since they have Lab's in house and it costs less (I hope) this new Insurance sucks. Weight 230-235lbs, trying to visit the gym more often.
    See attachment (4th Page 9/17/14)

  3. Other thing to mention:
    Haven't been sleeping very well, I'm a back sleeper and snore at night. I wake up 2-3x per night thirsty and have to drink some water. No sleep apnea according to my wife.

I started using KELP extract 9/17/2014 although body temp was fine. Lowest was 96.8 in the morning. Since started using KELP I've been sleeping poor, 4-6hrs whereas usually I sleep 8-9hrs. Don't feel tired but I get headaches if under stress at work, headaches are back of the head and usually 600mg of ibuprofen helps get rid of them.
Today is 9/26/2014 and still not sleeping well, same as above. Plan on using it for a few more weeks and monitor changes.

Still using Vitamin D 5000IU daily since 5/1/2014.

Taking DIM 2 pills a day.

Taking Celery seed extract pills since 9/10/2014 to help lower blood pressure, my BP is around 138/89 not super high. Measured it 9/23/2014 and it was 121/89, might be helping.

Currently due to weather using 10mg Cetirizine for allergies, mainly allergic to dust/pollen/grass. Start sneezing, watery eyes and runny nose.

I would like to modify my Anastrozole dose so that it keeps me around 22-28 although DIM seems to be working. I stopped Anastrozole 8/29/14 and 20 days later my Estradiol is 26.9pg/mL. Was using 40 drops for 40 days and got me down to 12pg/mL. Not sure how long I need to be off for correct readings?

Also currently feeling like got some confidence back, libido is ok, erections are no problem. Headaches and sleep is what's still present although headaches are lot less frequent then when not injecting.

100mg of Testosterone with hCG gets me to 507ng/dL, should I increase this dosage....I'm not feeling good yet although I'm a lot better than when I was using Anastrozole. I felt the best during these dates June 2013 - December 2013, it seems like I need to be in the high 800 Testosterone range. During that time I had no headaches and slept like a baby.

Thank you.


#2

Why are you using Kelp, and why would you continue using it if after starting you began having horrible sleeping patterns and frequent headaches under stress?

Listen to your body, it’s probably telling you something.

Did you know that can get iodine toxicity if you are taking in too much iodine?

Unless you are 100% sure you are deficient, you should not screw around with Kelp. One bag of Kelp provides about 5 years worth of the daily recommended amounts of iodine.

I’m not saying don’t take in iodine if you think you have some deficiency, just be prudent and do go overboard, either- you can f*ck yourself up.


#3

[quote]SixString wrote:
Why are you using Kelp, and why would you continue using it if after starting you began having horrible sleeping patterns and frequent headaches under stress?

Listen to your body, it’s probably telling you something.

Did you know that can get iodine toxicity if you are taking in too much iodine?

Unless you are 100% sure you are deficient, you should not screw around with Kelp. One bag of Kelp provides about 5 years worth of the daily recommended amounts of iodine.

I’m not saying don’t take in iodine if you think you have some deficiency, just be prudent and do go overboard, either- you can f*ck yourself up.[/quote]

For the past two years I’ve been dealing with the headaches.

The sleep issue I wanted to check if anyone else had similar issues and if it’s really related to KELP, everything I read is actually the opposite, it helps people sleep.

I’ve researched enough about iodine to know that it can be potent if used in higher dosages. The KELP I’m using contains 325mcg of iodine.

Two reasons I tried KELP:

  1. In the states we have a horrible diet and don’t get enough iodine into our system. Checked our salt at home and we have been using the non iodized kind.
  2. After extensive researching I wanted to experiment.

#4

Whats your Arimidex dosage? Could be an over responder, I can only take .25 a week. If you are an over responder and you get in the low teens this will create a dull sense of emotions and brain fog I know this for a fact because I get it.


#5

[quote]jkyle wrote:
Whats your Arimidex dosage? Could be an over responder, I can only take .25 a week. If you are an over responder and you get in the low teens this will create a dull sense of emotions and brain fog I know this for a fact because I get it. [/quote]

I listed the dosage in step 13 in the first post. I’ve been using 1mg/ml per week, it would appear that I’m an over-responder as well.

Question: if I increase my Testosterone dosage from 100mg to 150mg per week, I would need to increase the Arimidex dosage slightly, is that correct?
What about hCG, keep at 250IU EOD?


#6

Would not necessarily need to increase the arimidex dosage, especially if you are an overesponder. I was running 150mg weekly, .5 arimidex weekly and was in the 20’s. HCG is a big topic, if you are concerned for fertility than its a definite, also to help prevent atrophy to some degree. Personally i only use 250iu bi weekly and it seems to work fine, my personal opinion is the higher doses create more problems than its worth, key is to try and find the minimal dose to keep the boys signaling.

Just gotta play with the dosages and labs to see where you will have consistent numbers. I can say and maybe you can relate that I would rather run a little high on the estrogen side say 30 and below then be in the 15 and below range and feel horrendous, can’t move sore aches and pains, no emotions and brain fog.


#7

What stickies have you read here?

You need to inject T at least twice a week for your labs to be meaningful.

Are you using sea salt or iodized salt?

Cut back on zinc supplements.


#8

Thank you guys for the input…

[quote]KSman wrote:
What stickies have you read here?[/quote]
Advice for New Guys
KSman has Thyroid problems/issues.
TRT: Protocol for Injections
I found the answer to my question below, I re-read the posts again:

Estradiol: Why You Should Care

In step 5 I noted that since 6/03/2013 I have been injecting 2x per week. (After I found this site and started reading all your posts KSman. Thank you very much for your contributions.

Started using iodized salt second week of September along with KELP.

Not sure why my Zinc is high, I’m not taking any Zinc supplements.

Update: 9/30/14 I feel great again, energy and mood are excellent. No more headaches and sleeping well. Libido is great, brain fog is gone.

Still taking the following:
75mg of Testosterone 2x per week for a total of 150mg (Monday morning and Thursday night)
hCG cut down from 3x per week (250IU) to 2x per week. As long the urine flow is normal and my groin pains gone. I’m not worried about fertility at this point of my life.
DIM, 2 pills per day
Celery seed extract, 1 pill per day
Vitamin D, 5000IU per day
KELP, EOD 1 pill (325mcg iodine)

I’m going to continue the above and if you have any suggestions please keep them coming. There is alot of info on this site and trying to read and educate myself on everything, not going to lie but alot of the info just went over my head in the beginning.


#9

Please check your body temperatures as per thyroid basics sticky.


#10

[quote]KSman wrote:
Please check your body temperatures as per thyroid basics sticky.[/quote]

In the first post under step 18, I listed the lowest body temp I’ve had over a two week sample taking period. It was 96.8, it’s usually around 98.3. Since taking KELP, I had limited samples of 3-4 with temps around 97.6 morning and 98.3 evening.

UPDATE:
Injecting total 150mg Testosterone per week (2x per week).
hCG lowered to total 500IU per week (2x per week).
DIM, 2 pills in the morning.
Vitamin D, 5000IU in the morning.
KELP, one pill in the morning EOD.

Headaches are gone, no brain fog, confidence has returned, libido has increased, can handle stress alot better. Overall feeling great. Now the medical bills, that’s another story.

Any suggestions?


#11

I am currently on a nutritional balancing program (ton of veggies, animal protein, minimal sugar, no fruit, etc.) This is all based on a hair mineral analysis and in depth symptom analysis done by Dr. Wilson (http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/retracing.htm).

I have learned the following and am currently finding it to be possible.

"Kelp - Kelp delivers necessary trace minerals and has a binding property that allows these toxic elements to be removed from the body. Kelp delivers idonine to the thyroid and the natural iron in kelp is not absorbed but removed along with other toxic elements. It assists in detoxification as well as providing many trace nutrients that are hard to find in a “safe” form.

Maybe the sleep issues are actually a healing crisis brought on by the body as our livers “dump” toxic metals as we sleep. So, is it possible that this dumping is too much for some of us to handle if the high doses of Kelp are causing this when we sleep?

The tricky part of all of this is determining if the pain or disruption in our body is actually necessary for healing or if it is actually our bodies telling us to change an approach.


#12

Update:
Been ok for the most part, lack of concentration, hard to stay focused and less productive at work in the past few days.

Last 5-6 days feeling tired, memory issues, slight brain fog. Today I’m having a headache in the back of the head again.

Thinking about starting Anastrozole again at a 1/4 dosage.
No other changes to the protocol.


#13

Those complaints are consistent with the what guys here report for increased E2 levels on TRT.


#14

Haven’t had reason to visit in a while, hope all is well with the community. I see the forum layout has changed.

I’d love to hear inputs on my last lab test numbers which are attached. Labs were done one day before I was due for another dosage. Even though my Estrogen is in the 30s I’m feeling good, a lot better then when it was around 9.
Is it to expect for my LH, FSH numbers to be zero? Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that the pituitary gland trying to reduce testosterone amount.

My current dosages:
Been injecting 150-175mg/week (split between two dosages).
Two drops of Anastrozole (twice per week).
hCG 250IU once a week.
Vitamin D 5000IU - 1 per day.

Thank you


#15

Anyone? Any input please.
I still have headaches in the back of the head anytime I’m under pressure/stress. Other then that, have no complaints.


#16

Hellooo, it would be nice to hear some feedback regarding the blood lab results.