T Nation

34 Yr Old With Low T... Hit Me Out of Nowhere!

“”"
Subjects were randomized in a double-blind fashion to the following 12-wk oral regimens: group 1: anastrozole 1 mg daily (n = 12); group 2: anastrozole 1 mg twice weekly (n = 11);…
“”"

So 7mg per week or 2mg/week with no TRT. We know that that is lame from the get go.

The paper does not address modulation of E2 levels while on TRT or E2 target levels.
The paper is not a clinical recommendation. It is a dose-response observation.
The paper is not making any recommended medical dosing.
Some of the E2 results were too low for some, note the average +/- data.
The paper is centered around manipulation of an intact HPTA, the issue in this thread is TRT and the HPTA is shutdown. So what is the paper telling a doctor what to do with his TRT guys?

We also have a lot of guys with lower T and E=17, in those cases, not much hope for these low T low estrogen types.

[quote]KSman wrote:
“”"
Subjects were randomized in a double-blind fashion to the following 12-wk oral regimens: group 1: anastrozole 1 mg daily (n = 12); group 2: anastrozole 1 mg twice weekly (n = 11);…
“”"

So 7mg per week or 2mg/week with no TRT. We know that that is lame from the get go.

The paper does not address modulation of E2 levels while on TRT or E2 target levels.
The paper is not a clinical recommendation. It is a dose-response observation.
The paper is not making any recommended medical dosing.
Some of the E2 results were too low for some, note the average +/- data.
The paper is centered around manipulation of an intact HPTA, the issue in this thread is TRT and the HPTA is shutdown. So what is the paper telling a doctor what to do with his TRT guys?

We also have a lot of guys with lower T and E=17, in those cases, not much hope for these low T low estrogen types.
[/quote]

I think the takeaway we have from the study is that decreasing E2 by using an AI is beneficial to circulating testosterone levels and there were no noted adverse effects to medicating with an AI, which is what the OP was looking for in order to quell his doctors concerns about the “nasty side effects”.

Well I’ve officially ended my experiment of staying off the T… I felt pretty good for about 5 weeks after getting my last shot, but then I started having major ED again. I was almost ready to declare myself cured when the general malaise hit me again – and I couldn’t even get it up on manual override… (haha)

I tried the patch as my Endo asked me to before returning to shots, but I didn’t get any benefit from it at all, so ended that after 5 days (And it gave me a rash!). I am going to try the gel next, because she wants me to experiment with it before returning to shots – So I’m starting a new trial with the gel as soon as my insurance approves it in the next couple days.

My next Endo appointment is still a month away, so I’ve gathered lots of info and plan to petition her strongly for something to block my E2 levels. I’d like to at least “try” it for a couple months and see if it raises my QOL… If she isn’t OK with it, I’ll go back to my GP and ask him, since he seemed receptive to it before.

I’ve got a cruise coming up in a couple weeks that is going to be like a 2nd honeymoon, so I’m really hoping the gel kicks me back into high gear so I can bring my A game for the vacation. Will report back on my results!

Cheers,

  • Hakrjak

Just picked up my GEL for the 1st time. It came in 30 individual packets for $45 bucks (I’m on a $5/25/45 plan with Kaiser, so this is most expensive because it’s brand name!). I don’t like that cost, considering I was paying about $2.80 per shot on my insurance before. Already I see a huge financial benefit to going to 1 shot per week instead, but anyway… I said I’d try this stuff out, so I am.

I just applied it and it dried really quick. Like in 30-40 seconds. I liked that. It doesn’t have an odor or smell once it’s dry and seems OK. I began reading the included info though, and I don’t really like all the warnings on cross contamination. Basically if you are going to have skin to skin contact (i.e. sex with your wife) – It says you should shower first. But don’t shower within 5-6 hours of applying, or else you’ll lose the effect of the stuff… So now you have to plan your sex way in advance!? Alos it warns against letting this stuff come in contact with your kids. If they get it on them, they can grow pubes, enlarged sex organs, and all kinds of freaky stuff. So I’ll have to be extra careful to keep my shirt on at night in case one of the kids crawls into bed with us – great! I hate sleeping in a shirt. haha

Beyond that, not much to report. No instant boner or anything like that when applying to my chest and shoulders as instructed. I also applied some to my upper arms to make sure I hit all areas.

[quote]hakrjak wrote:
So I’ll have to be extra careful to keep my shirt on at night in case one of the kids crawls into bed with us – great! I hate sleeping in a shirt. haha

[/quote]

Why are you applying it at night? I thought gels were best applied in the morning to best mimic your natural test production?

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]hakrjak wrote:
So I’ll have to be extra careful to keep my shirt on at night in case one of the kids crawls into bed with us – great! I hate sleeping in a shirt. haha

[/quote]

Why are you applying it at night? I thought gels were best applied in the morning to best mimic your natural test production?
[/quote]

I am applying it in the morning, but I tend to sweat a lot at night! And I’ve read several people say that sweat reactivates the Androgel when it’s dried on your skin, and so if you come into contact with someone when you are sweaty – you are way more likely to transfer the stuff. On the packaging, it says to take a shower before having any skin to skin contact with anyone – regardless of time after use.

3rd day on Androgel – I woke up this morning with something resembling very weak morning wood, and actually performed halfway decent sexually – which was good considering I have had nothing down there for weeks now. Hoping things continue to improve! Will report further developments on my use of this new (to me) delivery method :slight_smile:

I didn’t feel much of a difference after my last post. Things were still pretty semi in the ED department. I was kind of frustrated, so before I applied the Androgel yesterday I exfoliated like a mofo. I scrubbed the hell out of my shoulders and abs, and applied the Androgel. I don’t know if that’s what did it, or if it was just the time building up in my system (This is about exactly 2 weeks on the stuff) – but last night, holy spontaneous boners Batman! I was off my ass sexually, and it’s lasted through today. Not only boners, but my wife usually leaves me with a list of 5-8 things to do while she’s at work, and I undoubtedly forget 3-5 of the items… Today I remembered everything! haha – Coincidence?

I hear there are a lot of guys on Gel that don’t need an AI, so I hope I am one of those guys – but I guess I’ll know in a few days if I start to feel the effect diminishing now that I seem to be plateu’ing out on the stuff.

glad to hear about the positive signs.

just keep on top of it.

log your status in a journal somehow. You will need it to refer back to (in case the memory issues resurface).

some people are fine on gels.
others start off fine, but then stop absorbing.
some never have any reaction to it.

Just a quick update on my thread (I’m tracking my progress here)

In a few days it will be 1 month on Androgel. I just wanted to provide a little update that the good feeling seems to be sticking around on this stuff. Morning wood, spontaneous erections, and performance in the bedroom are all holding pretty steady. I would say I feel about 85% on this stuff, which is a hell of a lot better than zero % (Which is where I was when I started)… I’m going in for blood tests this week, and should be able to report my levels when I meet with my Endo again in a couple of weeks – but so far, so good.

If you are a guy that is trying Androgel for the first time – keep in mind that it took 14 days on the stuff before I felt anything. I didn’t really believe it was doing anything, and then all systems were go like someone flipped on a light switch at a certain point.

More updates to come…

I’ve heard many stories about T gels and patches taking anywhere from a week to three months to start working consistently for some people, so that is good advice to keep in mind for people who are trying them. Glad to hear that you’re doing well!

That last 15% that you need to feel 100% might be identifiable through blood tests (e.g. high E2), so keep us updated :slight_smile:

good to hear, but stay vigilant.

I felt great for the first 2-3 months on Androgel before I stopped absorbing and my levels started plummeting. Doesn’t happen to everyone, but just stay level headed and take it a month at a time.

I hear that… I’ve already been through this long enough to never proclaim “I’m cured!” – Because you could lose it all again in a day or 2…

I have started to wonder if I shouldn’t have my gut issues investigated further by a gastroenterologist… Been wondering if I do have Crohn’s or Collitis or something that my doctor just blew off. Have still had constipation that comes and goes, right side colon discomfort, loose stools, and all kinds of crazy stuff. No blood though.

Cheers,

  • Hakrjak

Updating my thread to keep track of my progress:

Wow… Was doing some Internet research this week and came up with another theory that no doctors have put forward yet…

CELIAC DISEASE!

According to everything I have read on CELIAC forums and 1 study I found from 1982 (WTF!?!) — Men with Celiac disease have a higher % chance to suffer from Low T… I’m guessing it probably has to do with malabsorption in the gut because of all the digestive issues it causes, which would totally explain my low iron and mega low Vitamin D! It can also cause a skin rash that looks like atopic dermatitis which is exactly what I’ve had on my face now for about 2 years! I really hope it’s this simple…

I’m going to put this theory forward to my Doc on Wednesday and see if she can have me tested. It sounds like a lot of Docs are testing people for Cortisol now which is good also, because apparently there is a whole group of ailments that like to go with Low-T that include adrenal probs, hypogonadism, celiac disease, etc etc. Google “polyglandular autoimmune (PGA) syndrome” if you’re interested in learning more about that stuff.

Celiac does require a special blood test, I had to go back for that test after having a normal blood test and mentioning to my Dr. that my sister has celiac. I dont have it,it turns out I had H-pylori which is a common bacteria. Good luck!

I just got back from the doc and she agreed to run the Celiac test. Told me to go on a 2 week gluten binge, and then get it done. Thought my idea was a pretty good one (Why the hell didn’t she come up with it though 4 months ago!?! haha)

Latest labs show my TRT is right on track thanks to the switch to Androgel from biweekly shots:

TESTOSTERONE 14.6 (8.7-25.1)
Estradiol 29.7 (7.6-42.6)
Vitamin D 28.5 (32-100) – She is upping my 50,000 VitD from twice a week to 3 times a week…

My Midnight Saliv Cortisol came back too at <50 – which is basically undetectable… So she told me I don’t have any problems with my adrenals and that should all be fine for now. Is that true? I thought having too low could be a problem too? My serum cortisol levels came in at just above the range, which is why she ordered this test… So I guess my adrenals are working!

My Triglycerides are still high, but haven’t gone higher at 346 (-149) – so I’m going to keep up the fish oil and home I can bring that down at some point.

  • Hakrjak

I’ve been off the no gluten diet that I only stayed on for 4-5 days, and now it’s been a week. So far my weird facial rash has returned in all it’s glory, but my gut hasn’t been bad at all. I’m starting to wonder if just 5 days of being Gluten free could have given my digestive system a rest that it may have needed to get working again. I haven’t even wanted to take my Probiotics, which I’ve been addicted to for 90 days now because of major gut pain and issues with constipation and diarhea. My stools look totally normal like I haven’t see in years except maybe for a random day here or there.

I’m wondering if the gut issues are going to return again next week by the time I am due to go get tested for Celiac disease.

I’m also noticing tendonitis in my left elbow now that has been slowly getting worse over the past few months. It’s either tendonities or arthritis, I don’t know which. I’m not sure if this is a result of being on TRT or not, but I thought I would document it here in my case – just in case this turns into something down the road!

If I’ve learned anything so far in this process, it’s to document every little thing that happens with your body because you never know when it’s going to turn into something bigger.

Something I thought of this week that should be mandatory for all healthy 18 year old teenage males is to get a baseline blood test while you are still young and healthy. Something like this with your Testosterne, E2, etc would so helpful as men age! It should be included in the standard physical around 18 I think!

[quote]hakrjak wrote:
I’ve been off the no gluten diet that I only stayed on for 4-5 days, and now it’s been a week. So far my weird facial rash has returned in all it’s glory, but my gut hasn’t been bad at all. I’m starting to wonder if just 5 days of being Gluten free could have given my digestive system a rest that it may have needed to get working again. I haven’t even wanted to take my Probiotics, which I’ve been addicted to for 90 days now because of major gut pain and issues with constipation and diarhea. My stools look totally normal like I haven’t see in years except maybe for a random day here or there.

I’m wondering if the gut issues are going to return again next week by the time I am due to go get tested for Celiac disease.

I’m also noticing tendonitis in my left elbow now that has been slowly getting worse over the past few months. It’s either tendonities or arthritis, I don’t know which. I’m not sure if this is a result of being on TRT or not, but I thought I would document it here in my case – just in case this turns into something down the road!

If I’ve learned anything so far in this process, it’s to document every little thing that happens with your body because you never know when it’s going to turn into something bigger.

Something I thought of this week that should be mandatory for all healthy 18 year old teenage males is to get a baseline blood test while you are still young and healthy. Something like this with your Testosterne, E2, etc would so helpful as men age! It should be included in the standard physical around 18 I think![/quote]

You have major malabsorption issues going and need to find the roots cause of them.
Check h pylori in blood then I would so a stool sample test from http://www.parasitetesting.com/
when dealing with the gut issues I am one of the best around.

Thanks for your reply HardAsNails! I’d love to come see you in Phily, because I know you are the man – but sadly I’m going through some unemployment drama right now and finances simply won’t allow it.

I’m going to ask my Endo for a referral to a Gastroenterologist when she calls with my Celiac results regardless of what’s going on. I think they need to investigate what’s going on in my gut big time. I may also start a gluten-free / paleo style diet regardless of the results to see if it helps me feel better.

For the last few days now I’ve had trouble sleeping again, and my arms and legs feel funny. My armpits were swollen once again like they’ve done every 6 months or so also, but they seem to have gone down now. Arms feel Like they are kinda restless, trembling a little, and lighter than normal. I don’t know if this is just anxiety over what’s going on with me getting laid off at work or what, but I’m making note of it here incase it turns out to be some neurological issue caused by my gut problems. Now that I think I’m having autoimmune issues with the gut, I’m paranoid as fuck I’m going to come down with a major neurological problem.

My TRT has been going well in terms of being able to perform sexually on the Androgel now that I’ve been using it for almost 2 months. I’m still not back to my old self though, as it seems I have 1 good performance available to me every 2-3 days. If I go any more than that, the body just isn’t responding with much power in the sex department. Funny because I used to be able to go 3-4 times a day without issue before finding out I needed to be on TRT back in September. Wife is happy though, so things could be a lot worse! LOL

Cheers,

  • Hakrjak

I’m currently 9 days into eating Gluten Free again, and waiting on my Celiac DNA test results.

The rash on my face was almost completely gone yesterday, with just a small patch of dry skin. I used some Nivea face cream, and my face looked great. Went to bed, woke up this morning and I have a small outbreak of rash on my face for the first time in a couple weeks. I’m wondering if the cream wasn’t the allergen causing it, so I’m going to be sure not to use that cream again during my experiment.

I checked everything I ate yesterday with the manufacturers, and they confirmed that it was all Gluten free. I was a little worried because I had some BBQ Sauce which had so many ingredients in it – I thought for sure it must contain hidden Gluten. I think I’ll stay away from that on my experiment also, just to rule it in/out.

Gut has felt fantastic during this experiment. Bowel movements have completely returned to normal with the exception of this morning (Face Rash and Bowels definitely seem linked!)

More updates to come…