31yo, Need Assistance, Labs Included

Apologies for the super long post, feel free to skip to just labs, and maybe skim areas if I mentioned something that sticks out to you. P.S. sorry for all the links I have to another site, I have been a member there for a while and I enjoy their logging/tracking profile. I am posting because the more research I do I find either dead ends or conflicting information.

Age: 30 Height: 6’3 ft Waist: 52 inch Weight: 330
Body/Facial hair: No issues with hair growth, have a full beard, hairy back, Noticing small bald spot at crown of head (both brothers are bald/balding)
Body fat: Have always had issues with body fat, Very large framed person and according to U.S. Navy BF is in the 39%. Fat is primarily in the chest (moobs) and stomach area

Health conditions: No underlying conditions, as a child misdiagnosed ADD, No predominant health conditions doc is trying to get me on Blood pressure meds but I have kept them in check naturally with chamomile/hibiscus tea, (and learning to relax lol)

RX and OTC Drugs: Currently out of TRT meds, Daily
Supps: Opti-men multi, garlic, Fish oil (1.5g/5 pills), Arginine & ornithine, Acetyl L-Carnitine

Diet: Following the Carb Nite Solution (as best I can) Shooting for under 30g Carbs a day, realistically after veggies coming in around under 40. One “Re-feed” (this is the carb night) a week in a 6 hour window
Training: I work out 4-5 days a week with a trainer for 45-55 minutes on my lunch break, according to my HRM im burning roughly 650-800 calls in this time. We do a hybrid of cardio weight training, I am doing plenty of weighted and cardio. Needless to say I’m wiped out at the end of every workout.
Testes ache ?: No

Morning wood: More often than not
Sex Drive: Before during and after TRT have not noticed any issues and always seemed overactive
My goals: I want to lose body fat, I have been doing great once the Cyp kicked in, but I also started the CNS diet around that time so I can’t give 100% of the credit to either one. I have gone down roughly 30-40 lbs since Mid May 2013. Here is a monthly breakdown of my weight fluctuation.

2013 Weight Tracker | 01-1: 338| 02-1: 330| 03-1: 353.6 | 04-1:364.3 l 05-1:365 l 06-1:355 l 07-1:355| 08-1: 344| 09-1: 340| 10-1: 331| 11-1: 321| 12-1: 327|

TRT history
2/10/2012 - Testim Gel 1(50g) tube a day - I disliked this because I would constantly forget and I hated the stickiness of the gel, I also never felt much diff (could be due to the inconsistency)
3/05/2013 - 90/10 Cyp/Enthanate blend (150G) 1 shot a week (.75ml )- Much better (consistency wise, but only did this for 4 months due to the cost to get compounded ($60/month).

7/12/2013 - 100% Test Cyp (150g-200g) 1 shot a wk - Once this kicked in everything was great (minus side effects discussed below) Last shot was on sep 29th due to running out of prescription, and lag in between doc visit. During this time I decided to see what would happen if I moved off TRT how bad my body would drop back etc

Side effects to TRT - Only on Cyp I noticed terrible back acne every other day I had a new one it made me very self-conscious. I also noticed a major uptick in my estradiol, my understanding is I need something to keep that under wraps, and I also understand I need something like HCG to keep my testes producing naturally as well.

Last Doc Visit- 11/13/2013, My previous doctor of 3-4 years has “disappeared” she stopped reporting for work and they don’t know where/if she still practices. She was a highly rated doc and she preferred to find a natural remedy before throwing medicine at issues typically which I really appreciated. So I had a whole new doctor (board certified for occupational medicine).

I discussed my desire to start receiving HCG in addition to cyp and he discussed his lack of knowledge in that field of medicine made him “wary” of prescribing me anything so instead he referred me to an endocrinologist, and a sleep study (I cannot afford either at this time) and the short of it he did not renew my prescription. I assume if I do see an endocrine it would be better if I am “clean” of the TRT so he knows my baseline levels and maybe something would stick out

Back where I started - So I have noticed my workouts are much harder to get through nowadays. I did my baselines yesterday and I had to stop after 2 exercises, I could not even do half of a squat at 215 and I had immense difficulty lifting the bar to bench 215 lbs. I don’t want to lose all the progress I have made on this, I am still working out every day so I can only assume this loss in power is a result of the T dropping.
(seems I cant post links if you do a search for my username on bodybuilding.com you’ll see a detailed view of my lifting progress)

TRT goals - I would like to see if there is a supplement or natural way to boost T, I have read conflicting reports on DAA and Trib, people swear by them then there are those that say they do nothing. I’m not opposed to getting back on TRT but my concerns are the side effects I mentioned. I may do better on enthanenate.As I understand it is slower releasing so to speak, and the acne was primarily a result of hormone instability, i.e. the cypionate would be in the system then by the end of the week is down then it shoots back up. causing the body to break out due to imbalance
Please ask anything I have missed here, it seems this place is a vast area of knowledge so I am truly grateful

Here are my labs running back from April 2012 attached
(attached in post below)

P.S. if anyone has a good Doctor recco in Tampa for these sort of issues please let me know

Forgot to upload labs

Bumping up in the hopes someone will be able to assist. I see I need to begin monitoring my body temp from the thyroid page, anything in my lab work that tells you anything? What other labs should I be requesting?

What is the question? It appears that you were on TRT and you just stopped it. Therefore, your pituitary and testes were shut down, you stopped TRT, and they stayed shut down. Perhaps there are some natural things that could shorten your recovery a little bit, but typically folks need to do a PCT in order to kickstart things (HCG for testes then SERMs for Pituitary) . Of course you feel like hell and can’t lift like you used to - your T levels are tanked.

In general, You can either keep feeling like hell and wait it out in the hopes of self recovery or attempt a PCT/restart program or go back on TRT. Maybe get your LH and FSH checked to see if they are coming back up.

Good luck to you.

I guess my question is has anyone tried or know of natural things first. If not, how do I discuss the other items with my doctor, he offered to renew the script for me, but then I’m just taking CYP, I need to do the whole TRT protocol which my doctor wanted me to go to an endo. I cant afford to be running to different doctors. I guess I am also asking if I should request any specific tests (in addition to the LH/FSH you mentioned.

If I get back onto it, any suggestions for the terrible back acne I had while on it?

Straight T cyp can be cheap and at 1ml per week, lasts 20 weeks.

Read these stickies: -CAREFULLY

  • advice for new guys – note other causes, your low T is a symptom of something
  • protocol for injections
  • thyroid basics
  • finding a TRT doc

you can get anastrozole on your own, google research chemical anastrozole
if you cannot get hCG, you can try nolvadex from same search

just how bad is your medical budget?
how are you paying for labs?


  • TT, FT, E2
  • TSH, fT3, fT4 - perhaps delay if you are iodine deficient, low temps and doing IR

you appear to have hypothyroidism and that can lead to weight gain and low hormones, but low T can be from multiple causes

post body temps here, everything about you goes here, not in any stickies

what is your history of using iodized salt or vitamins listing iodine?

you may estrogen dominant, do you have gynecomastia?

You really needed LH/FSH as part of your initial diagnostics, otherwise malpractice in my book.

Reading stickies again

My doc refused me HCG (until I see an endo) so I will research the Nolvadex and Anastrozole. As you put in a sticky that is their way of "getting you out of their hair).

Medical budget - Its kind of a situation that any extra costs at this point in time hurts. I’m on a high deductible plan currently. I have no qualms spending some money upfront if it will help me in the long run but I want to be sure I am making the right decisions with my doctor which will take finding a good doctor/educating myself on the matter. In the meantime I guess ill have to deal with it. Labs have been ordered through Doc and paid for out of my HSA. I assume I will need to request these labs you mentioned by my doc or can I get them ordered if I want them myself, seems expensive either way as the doc route may require another trip to doctor (@ $100+ a visit).

Iodized salt, I currently use kosher salt was using sea salt but ran out, I do not use salt beyond mild flavoring, and anytime i use it in a recipe I cut it by 1/4 - 1/2 as I worry about sodium. My daily multi (Opti-men)contains 150mcg (100%) of iodine (as kelp) and 200 mcg of selenium (286%)

My estrogen did not appear out of whack until my T started shooting up, I do not believe I am Gyno but instead just suffer from unattractive chest fat as I have been large my whole life, my chest fat is not “shapely” as they discuss gyno would be, regardless if this appears to be an issue as I continue to lose weight I will see about testing for it.

LH/FSH I am requesting all labs before I began TRT from my Doc office to see if they can provide it.

Thank you so much for jumping in on this. I am purchasing a Thermometer on the way home today

Get LEF.org labs [by labcorp] and pay out of pocket. Using your HSA for that might not be legal. Do you max out your HSA contribution to get the tax benefits? Then based on your labs, you can go to doc if you need to.

You did not state how long [history] you gave used vitamins that list iodine.

You need to get iodized salt. There is no iodine in sea salt or kosher salt.

Sorry, I just started using the Multi the past 30 days or so. Regardgn the iodized salt, I use salt so sparingly as I watch the sodium I will see if it is addressed in your stickies whether it is enough to make a difference.

Checked the LEF.org site out and am not sure what lab I should order. I do not max out my HSA my company puts $25 in my account every 2 weeks, and I get charged $35 every 2 weeks to be “insured”. I dont typically max out the HSA since once its in the account I cant get to it vs my 401 etc I can withdraw (w penalty, etc). If the LEF or whatever is a legal route to use HSA money, I am allowed to raise and lower my distribution on a check per check basis so I could help with the hit on taxes taken out that way. I will look into this once I determine which lab I should be ordering unless I am able to have my doctor order it.

Had to purchase a Thermometer couldn’t find a oral one so I purchased the “exergen temporal scanner”.

From the reading I did on the thyroid if my understanding is correct the temps would suggest I am hypothyroid. I have not completed the sticky yet (so you may address this already) but at any point do you have any particular supplement you recommend, I have read SSKI (Super Saturated Potassium Iodide). SSKI can only be obtained from a pharmacy and requires prescription. I believe this SSKI is a part of the “lugols” recipe. Do you have a preferred product you use?

So what lab do you recommend getting on the LEF website there are so many! I am curious if I can select a lower level one as I have many items already documented for. I may have earlier labs than I stated (before I began TRT) that may provide some of the results you mentiononed.

I have no idea if your temporal thermometer is good data or not.

In the thyroid basics sticky you will see that most are using Iodoral tablets.

LEF lab testing is not HSA legal, IRS determines the rules.

Sounds like you are iodine deficient.
Why avoid sodium? Sodium does not cause heart or arterial disease.

Started taking Iodine today, its only a 100% serving per 3 drops (150 MCG) I have taken about 10 servings so far today. OnceI run out of this I will get the Lugols more bang for buck.

I found more labs Pre TRT, unfortunately I have no history of a LH/FSH test :frowning:

[quote]KSman wrote:
I have no idea if your temporal thermometer is good data or not.

In the thyroid basics sticky you will see that most are using Iodoral tablets.

LEF lab testing is not HSA legal, IRS determines the rules.

Sounds like you are iodine deficient.
Why avoid sodium? Sodium does not cause heart or arterial disease.[/quote]

You responded while I was typing my previous post!

I have read the Thyroid sticky in its entirety and as stated will switch to another form of iodine after this is completed (shouldn’t take long at 10 servings a day.

Back to LEF labs, which lab do you recommend they seem to all be packaged together. I am also requesting the following labs possibly through my doctor per yoru first response.

  • TT, FT, E2
  • TSH, fT3, fT4

T3/T4 labs have come back

Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct - .97
Triiodothyronine (T3) - 94

So I am on the low end but not out of range, I assume this is what you mean by “sub clinical”). I have kicked up the iodine supplementation and once I get through these bottles I will begin looking for some stronger stuff. My gas is noticeably wretched, but I have not experienced anything else as of yet (after about a week supplementing) to show I am detoxing of bromine. Temps still seem to have trouble getting over 97.8 I have had a few 98.3’s here and there but not regular enough to get excited.

I was told the (TT, FT, E2 ) are things they would not order until after I was to be put back on TRT. What are your thoughts, should I keep going at it with the iodine, and see how I’m doing, should I move forward with ordering labs from LEF (still not 100% on which labs I should order).

also I started a supplement for testosterone in the meantime f that contains DAA (from sams club). I hear conflicting views on DAA, but if nothing else at least they taste pleasant lol.

So I have been supplementing with about 1…5-1.7 MG Iodine a day for a few weeks now. My morning temps are still not at 98 they have gotten better but not up over the hump. Should I up the iodine?

Meeting with the Doctor soon what should I do, ask to be put back on a protocol? I can likely get the enthanate out of him but may need something else to get the ball rolling on the HCG and the other thing I should be taking (slipped my mind).

When you stop taking T, do you “lose” all your strength or do you jus stop making gains? I was lifitng 60lb dumbells no problem while on it tried to do 20 bench press with it yesterday and was winded by the 5th rep.