T Nation

31, Thinking of TRT, Opinions Before Bringing Up with Doctor


#41

I have a hard time believing it’s 30mg seriously that’s nothing. It might even be a waste of time. The lowest dose I’ve seen test results for was 100mg. And if I recall at that rate you would need to take it everyday to do anything significant. And with what they’re charging I seriously doubt they’re being cheap


#42

Just got my shipment of HCG and T Cyp in today and would really appreciate some sanity checking.

The T Cyp is a 200 mg/mL vial, and the instructions said to take 0.5mL once a week. Seems super low does. 200mg/mL at 50mg (100mg a week, 50mg today) == 0.25mL. I have 3mL syringes, so I filled to the 0.25 line.

HCG: 11,000iu vial. Reconstituted with 11mL bacteriostatic water / sodium chloride. Wanting 250iu per does (3x per week), I filled to the 25 on the syringe.

My anastrazole prescription is 1mg each pill, however the dosing protocol here says to take 1mg a week divided in to 3 doses. Strange that they’d way over prescribe anastrazole, but under HCG.


#43

100mg a week is a good starting dosage, some it will put well above 500 ng/dL while others need slightly more. I was put on 50mg twice weekly a week ago, was on 75mg weekly. I haven’t ever presented with symptoms of elevated E2 as of yet, been on TRT since February.


#44

The T is fine to start. It is lowesh but for some it would work fine. Your AI is high for that low dose of testosterone. Cut the pills into quarters. Take a quarter after every shot o testosterone. See how you next blood test works out and adjust your dosage from there. Even that could be high. So watch your symptoms. Buy a new test early if you do not feel right


#45

Thank you for the replies @verne and @systemlord.

The plan is to start at 100mg per week and the move it up (or down, doubtful) to get me to an optimal level.

Injected .25mL T this morning in to my glute and after pulling out the needle, I had some very dark blood rip out. Not much, and there wasn’t any pain. That was odd. Also injected 25cc of hCG, and took a quarter of an anastrazole dose.

Going forward I think I’ll do a half anastrazole (.5mg) twice a week, along with the T and HCG. So a total of 2 doses of everything each week, though I wonder if the anastrazole is better to do 3 times a week.


#46

Even at low dosages three times a week has a good change of crashing your E2. your anastrazole dosage is normally based on your testosterone levels. anastrazole has a 48 hr half life. Three times a week Im not sure you would produce any E2. And that is not good.

If your doctor is watching you very close and testing very often. Maybe he has had success doing it this way


#47

Based off of that, the anastrozole dosing is unclear (what does ‘divided’ mean?).
It could mean this:

  • T Cyp twice a week
  • 250iu hCG M, W, F
  • Anastrozole .5mg twice a week

I don’t have a lot of faith in my doctor or the practice (numale). While they did set me up with the right drugs (T Cyp, hCG, Anastrozole), his dosing seems odd (inject T once a week, for example).

So if I am injecting T Cyp on M and Thur, the hCG on M, W, F is still fine. It could also be M, Thur, Sat as that would allow me to combine my dosing on Thursday. As for the anastrozole, I could take the .5mg on M and Thur when I inject.

Sound about right?

I’ve also got a copy of
Testosterone: A Man’s Guide- Second Edition by Nelson Vergel in the mail, which should help shed some light on this for me.


#48

So I went in yesterday and had my 3-week follow up. Planned on talking with the Doc but he was ‘very busy’, and as their lab was ‘down for calibration’, they recommended I head home and that the doctor would call me later that day.

I’ve been on ~125mg of T Cyp a week, spread over 2 injections (Monday and Thursday), 25iu of HCG 3x week (Monday, Wednesday and Friday), and then .5mg anastrazole twice a week, with each injection.

No reference ranges were provided:

Total T: 836
Free T: They don’t test for this as “it doesn’t change the treatment plan”. Fair enough.
Estradiol: 32
Hematocrit / blood viscosity: “good, no meaningful change”

The Doctor wants me to move up to 200mg per week with once a week injections (Monday), and then come in for another test on a Thursday.

If 125mg a week has brought my levels from mid 200 to mid 800, then it seems like 125mg a week works for me. Upping the dose to 200mg in a single shot and then testing me 3 days later, they’re obviously going to get a much higher reader - probably well over 1000.

I have a feeling that this is part of Numale’s game, though I’m not sure how that makes any sense yet.

Fortunately, I do my homework.

I’m going to order my own labs to validate their results and to check other markers, as they only test a very few things. That, and with their lab being in-house, who knows how accurate the numbers are.

I’d like to get LH and FSH tested a few more times, as there were the concerns about pituitary issues. Additionally I’d like to get my TSH, fT3, fT4 and rT3 checked.

I’m also going to call the doc this week and go over why he wants me to nearly double my dose when my levels are already above 800, and why he wants me to inject once a week.

Any recommendations on where to order custom labs from? I normally use wellnessfx.com

As for how I’m feeling after 3 weeks - a little better. More motivation, less depression, more frequent morning erections (1 - 3 per week). Strength training is slightly easier, and I’ve gained about 6 pounds without having changed my diet or my training program.


#49

Had my first follow up after having the doctor bump up my dose to 200mg a week (2 doses of .5ml) and 1.5mg anastrazole (3 doses of .5mg).

Took .5ml on Monday then had a draw on Thursday morning. Total T came back at 1469, and Estrogen at 43… yikes. Docs said these level are “optimal”.

I’ve backed my dose down to .4ml twice a week, and have upped my anastrazole dose to 2mg a week (1mg, .5mg, .5mg), on my own.

Also FWIW, I’ve been injecting subcutaneously using insulin syringes, with no issue. At .4ml the injection time only takes a few seconds, where-as the loading time takes a few minutes.

Looking to get a sleep study done as well, as I may have sleep apnea. Wife has noticed me snoring, and I am still pretty tired during the day.

I will see where this takes me, and have schedule additional labs through my GP in 2 weeks, but wow, do I feel much better than pre-TRT. Night and day difference.

Motivation is back, no longer couch locked, putting on muscle easier, and holy crap - the libido. Going at at least 2, often 3, times a day. The wife can’t keep up.


#50

Long over-due update. I’ve switch providers to Defy Medical.

2018-08-25 labs. .50ml test 2/week, .30ml HCG 3/week, AI 3/week

  • tT 898 ng/dL 264-916
  • fT 50 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
  • fT4 1.25 ng/dL .81 - 1.77
  • DHEA-S 409.7 ug/dL 138.5 - 475.2
  • TSH .877 uIU/mL .45 - 4.5
  • IGF 350 ng/mL 88 - 246
  • rT3 18.9 ng/dL 9.2 - 24.1
  • fT3 3.3 pg/mL 2 - 4.4
  • ES Sensitive 23.3 pg/mL 8 - 35
  • SHBG 10.2 nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9

2019-01-14 labs. .30ml test 3/week, .30ml HCG 3/week, AI 3/week

  • tT 802 ng/dL 264-916
  • fT 41.3 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
  • fT4 1.15 ng/dL .81 - 1.77
  • DHEA-S 321.6 ug/dL 138.5 - 475.2
  • TSH 1.69 uIU/mL .45 - 4.5
  • rT3 24.1 ng/dL 9.2 - 24.1
  • fT3 3.1 pg/mL 2 - 4.4
  • ES Sensitive 18.4 pg/mL 8 - 35
  • SHBG 11.5 nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9

2019-02-05 labs:

  • Prolactin 10.3 ng/mL 4 - 15.2
  • IGF 301 ng/mL 88 - 246
  • tT3 106 ng/dL 71 - 180

#51

How are you feeling?


#52

How’s your sex life and erections ? How’s your sperm and fertility ?


#53

Damn that free t son. He’s flying like a bird… but that e2 is so low isn’t it? Man go to a doc and have him run a scan to check your bone health. Allot of tests have been run on men and woman that took ai for long term and they are having bird bones… hollow… be careful…

It’s even on the anastrazole website. The side effects clearly say bone density is effected .


#54

The biggest change has been mental. I feel great. I’ve put on 10 pounds since my original post, but at about the same bodyfat percentage. Still having trouble losing weight. Squat and deadlift are up over 400lb now. I’ve started running again as well. Sleep isn’t great but I’m working on that.

Sex life is better; not that I had a problem with libido before hand, but it’s out of control now. Wife can’t keep up. Haven’t had my sperm tested, but my testes are the same size (big shout out to HCG). No problem getting erections but occasional trouble maintaining them, which I’m actually racking up to issues with body image / weight.

We’re working on getting my free T down and are lowering both my Test and AI dosage, and adding in cytomel.

I wasn’t aware of the AI / bone issues, will look in to that, but like I said above, we’re already lowering my dosage significantly.


#55

Significant bone loss using an AI happens 3 mg weekly, not these .125-.250 micro doses. If you have someone who is opposite of an AI over responder, then he may far better on higher doses.


#56

I took .125 ai once and had head aches and throbbing pain… that one tiny dosage also had me sweating hours later and other low e2 symptoms…it was freezing cold and I felt hot… Maybe I am an over responder. Not sure really… I’m just glad I did not tske .5 per week like the clinic suggested.


#57

Weight gain and insomnia are both side effects of anastrozole. Just stop taking it.

Here is an expert in the field talking about the benefits of higher E2 and the dangers of anastazole/AIs:


#58

The same exact thing happened to me at the same dose, even a pinch of the anastrozole destroys me. I grind up aromasin into a powder and wet the end of a toothpick and whatever sticks I consume.

That’s how small dose I need, erection happen almost immediately.


#59

Does testasterone seem to work on you quick or do you feel a new injection fairly fast! Some
Say days/ for me I can feel it in a coooke hours. If it’s a big dose.


#60

I say look up tot revolution round table on YouTube. Or tot revolution and you will find a hundred videos talking about ai and etc. you’ll learn more and see where I get most of my suggestions from :slight_smile: