T Nation

305 x 5 Squat - Critique Please


#1

Finally crossed the 300lb mark on my squat (for reps). Its been two years in the making. The last rep is pretty slow and somewhat ugly, I know. 365 for a single is the next goal.

What say ye?

[video]1391[/video]


#2

Everything looks good to me, nice job!


#3

Very good form..lat one not perfect but still good!! nice work!


#4

Frick yah man! Your my hero! ^_^


#5

I love that song. Waking up in Vegas.

But seriously, nice work.


#6

Looks great bro. Super jealous haha.


#7

GOOD SHIT...keep it up


#8

Impressive! Great job.


#9

Two things that could use some improvement -

  1. Knees lock out too late. Lots of hip extension early in the movement, most of the knee extension does not occur until the very end of the rep. If you smoothed that movement out you could likely put a good bit more weight on the bar.

  2. Set-up needs work, especially if your eyeing up 365 x 1 as your next goal. I count 8 or 9 steps out of the rack to get set up. That does not work out too well when you have a 1RM on the bar.

The good news is this stuff is pretty easy to fix. Just practice and you'll hit that 365 in no time.


#10

good work man

youre about 10 pounds ahead of my 5RM , with my best gym lift at 360 (meet legal) , and my best meet lift at about 350 .

I think you got that 365 in you now or very soon

that last rep was inspiring . when my bar speed comes to a halt like that , it's a missed rep . yours came to a stop about 8" outta the hole....and you got that fucker moving again . thats where the ab work comes in .

hell , very few lifters in my gym would have even attempted that 5th rep


#11

Nice lifts. For a heavy weight, I thought you made it looked pretty.

For the sake of argument, I was under the impression that this was a good thing. Rippetoe refers to it as "hip drive", and says it is good because the hamstrings/glutes are stronger muscles then the quads.

I've been trying to squat like this, and it was demonstrated quite nicely in the video.

Now for the quads to contribute more, I think there would be forward knee movement at the bottom of the squat, killing the hip drive and leading to a weaker squat.

I'm not saying I'm right, but I was under this impression.


#12

Why would disjointed movement be a good thing? Why would you go out of your way to segment a movement?

Just take a look at videos of other really heavy squats. The best squatters' knees and hips work smoothly together. If anything, big squatters will be knee dominant early rather than late.


#13

First, thanks to all.

Challer, I've always been coached to "drop the hip" first. Just so we're clear, are you suggesting to go straight down more rather than dropping back and get the knees to bend earlier? I was told a good rule of thumb is to make sure the knees don't go past the toes. Is this legit?

Set up wise, yes, I do need to work on that. Another powerlifter made the same comment. I really don't know what I'm doing when I set up, I just get comfortable and tighten up, then drop. Thanks for the feedback bro.


#14

No problem.

Your descent into the squat looks fine. It does not start looking a bit off until you are on your way up.. the only thing I would try to change with your form is smoothing out the concentric part of the lift. As far as your question about sitting back into the squat and knees past the toes goes - it depends. If you want to compete in geared powerlifting competitions, the thicker your suit, the more you will want to sit back into your squat. The more you sit back, the less likely you are to go knees over toes. Also, the wider your stance, generally the more the hips sit back. Just look at the video of a 1000 lb squatter in thick suit - usually they take a super wide stance and their shins barely go past perpendicular to the ground, let alone past the toes. This is practically impossible to mimic during free squatting without a suit, which is why the box squat is so popular (and rightfully so) in geared powerlifting training programs.

However, for the raw lifter, this is not necessarily true. It depends if you are squatting just for squattings sake or if you want to get in a competition. The toe mark is very rough landmark to say the least - 2 people could have similar leg & torso lengths but very different shoe sizes! Just look at elite olympic lifters - they back and front squat tons of weight with their knees going past the toes. It really depends on your stance & anthropometry.

As a general rule, I've found people in a very wide powerlifting stance will not go past their toes, people in a hybrid stance may or may not, and in olympic stance going past the toes is routine. I would not worry about that too much - as I said before your mechanics on the eccentric are fine. Just smooth out your mechanics on the way up and your weights will go up in no time.


#15

To Challer:

Wow, that read like an article. So educational, thanks.

I don't plan on competing. I just want to squat and keep it raw. I do agree that my concentric is almost two separate moves. Obviously I would have to smooth it out using some lower weights. Do you recommend anything in specific for tweaking my form a bit? Also, I feel like I'm going to plateau soon. What might be a good protocol to help me make the next jump? Smolov, Shieko? I love to squat and DL. Thanks again.


#16

Personally I am a big fan of 5/3/1 - there is a reason that everyone is doing it (and getting results)! With that you would be able to deadlift and squat weekly.

I've never tried Shieko personally, for its traditional criticisms - a lot of guys would need to be on AAS, have a ridiculous capacity for recovery and stress, or at the very least have very little going on in their lives to do it right (read: just be able to lay around, train, and eat all day without any outside stress). Personally, I do best off lower volumes and the most any client of mine has to train is 4 hours total a week.

Same thing with Smolov to a lesser degree. However, if you have had no back issues in the past and confident you can handle squatting an upwards of 4 days a week (many can't and shouldn't IMO) and are hitting a low stress time in your life, I would not go as far to say that a Smolov cycle would be a bad thing. It could be a great thing, IF you can handle it.

That's another reason I like 5/3/1 so much. It puts a focus on longevity and quality of life that other programs don't consider.

As far as fixing the squat form, it depends what the issue is - control or strength imbalance. I think it is just a motor control thing and to correct it I think doing tons of body weight squats would help. On your off days and in particularly on your deload weeks, just rep out 100 body weight squats over 5 or 10 sets while giving as much mental attention to the knees and hips moving together as possible. Take a break between sets and regain mental focus.


#17

looks good to me.


#18

good evening,

I coach high school powerlifting in Texas... I've worked hard to get that 'snap' that I see at the top of your squat out of them... our judges don't like to see that as it speaks of lack of control, and when going for reps, I think they're right... I coach a max of four steps out of the rack... keeping in mind every competition is for a new max, we want that weight on the lifter for the shortest time possible... grin... I won't ever claim to be an expert, but I know what works for MY kids...

I'll give you a quick rundown of My sheiko experience next post...

and the bright side... man that's GREAT depth!!! I'd show that video to My kids as proper depth with your permission... up to and including that fifth rep, which was simply guts all the way, like the last rep SHOULD be...

great job man!!

have a great evening,

Coach Bear


#19

hello again,

I've been doing sheiko since January, after a football coaching season with no lifting and a knee injury which delayed My return to the weight room two more months after that...

I had the same criticisms as every one else... too much time required for Me to ever FIND the time... recovery, etc... what I've found is that recuperability grows with My strength... time is still an issue for Me, and I've had to modify the program to fit that time, but I'll give you this...

05 Jan 09
5 x 3 x 215 Bench
4 x 3 x 255 Deadlift
5 x 2 x 255 Squat

13 Aug 09
5 x 3 x 295 Bench
4 x 3 x 325 Deadlift
5 x 2 x 325 Squat

IF I could find time for the whole program and still sleep a reasonable amount, I have no doubt it would be much better... I'll stick with sheiko til it don't work, and it still is...

have a great night,


#20

hello again,

I've been doing sheiko since January, after a football coaching season with no lifting and a knee injury which delayed My return to the weight room two more months after that...

I had the same criticisms as every one else... too much time required for Me to ever FIND the time... recovery, etc... what I've found is that recuperability grows with My strength... time is still an issue for Me, and I've had to modify the program to fit that time, but I'll give you this...

05 Jan 09
5 x 3 x 215 Bench
4 x 3 x 255 Deadlift
5 x 2 x 255 Squat

13 Aug 09
5 x 3 x 295 Bench
4 x 3 x 325 Deadlift
5 x 2 x 325 Squat

IF I could find time for the whole program and still sleep a reasonable amount, I have no doubt it would be much better... I'll stick with sheiko til it don't work, and it still is...

have a great night,